>> HI, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

IRAN SUSPENDS TALKS WITH THE U. S. AFTER ISRAEL ESCALATES IN LEBANON.

COULD THE CEASE-FIRE COLLAPSE?

WE'LL HAVE THE DETAILS.

THEN AFTER WEEKS OF BOMBARDMENT, CONDITIONS INSIDE IRAN ARE DETERIORATING FAST.

SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNSEL EXPLAINS THE TERRIBLE PRICE CIVILIANS ARE PAYING FOR THIS WAR.

>> DONALD TRUMP CALLED ME A LIAR AND I COULDN'T LET IT STAND.

>> THE WOMAN WHO TOOK ON TRUMP AND WON.

E. JEAN CARROLL SUED PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR DEFAMATION AND SEXUAL ASSAULT.

NOW SOURCES SAY THE DOJ HAS LAUNCHED A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION INTO CAROLL OVER PERJURY ALLEGATIONS.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY ASK E JEAN TELLS CAROLL'S STORY.

ALSO AHEAD, BEST-SELLING AUTHOR JASMINE WARD SPEAKS ABOUT HOW STORYTELLING HAS SHAPED HER LIFE AND HER GRANDMOTHER'S EARLY ADVICE TO TELL IT STRAIGHT AND TELL IT ALL.

> >> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT , THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION, THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

THESE WERE THE SCENES IN BEIRUT EARLIER AS CIVILIANS FLOODED OUT OF THE CAPITAL'S SOUTHERN SUBURBS.

THE IDF IS PREPARING TO LAUNCH STRIKES AGAINST HEZBOLLAH.

AFTER A WARNING FROM PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU THAT ISRAEL PLANS TO SEND TROOPS DEEPER INTO LEBANESE TERRITORY.

I WANT TO GET TO JERUSALEM.

JUST THIS EXPANDED OPERATION BY ISRAEL HERE WITH HEZBOLLAH LAUNCHING INCREASED ATTACKS AGAINST ISRAELI TROOPS, NOW ISRAEL SAYING THEY'RE INCREASING THE SCOPE OF THEIR OPERATION.

INITIALLY SAYING THEY HAD THE SUPPORT OF THE UNITED STATES IN THIS OPERATION, BUT WITH IRAN NOW SAYING THAT A CEASE-FIRE BETWEEN THE U. S. , ISRAEL, AND IRAN LIE SQUARELY IN A CEASE- FIRE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HEZBOLLAH, WHERE DO THINGS STAND?

>> Reporter: THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WAITING TO LEARN HERE.

THAT'S BECAUSE IT WAS AT 10:30 THIS MORNING, SO ABOUT 11 HOURS AGO OR SO THAT ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU ANNOUNCED THAT ISRAEL WOULD BE STRIKING BEIRUT AND SPECIFICALLY THE DAHIA NEIGHBORHOOD, A SOUTHERN SUBURB OF THE LEBANESE CAPITOL THAT'S CONSIDERED A HEZBOLLAH STRONGHOLD.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN AN ACTUAL ATTACK ON BEIRUT.

THIS HAD BEEN COORDINATED WITH THE U. S. IN ADVANCE OR IN REALTIME, BUT IT'S LIKELY IT SEEMS THAT IT'S THE U. S. THAT HASN'T ACTUALLY GIVEN ITS APPROVAL FOR THIS.

NORMALLY WHEN YOU SEE AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF STRIKES OR EVEN AN EVACUATION WARNING FOR A SPECIFIC AREA, IT'S NOT LONG AFTER THAT THOSE STRIKES WILL BE CARRIED OUT.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN YET.

IT'S A VERY INTERESTING MOMENT HERE.

IT WAS SEVERAL HOURS AFTER THAT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT IRAN SAID IT WAS SUSPENDING TALKS PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF THE ISRAELI ESCALATION IN LEBANON.

AND ALSO BECAUSE OF MORE U. S. STRIKES ON IRAN.

SO THE QUESTION IS NOW WHERE THAT LEAVES IT.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP SAID A SHORT TIME AGO THAT MAYBE IT'S NOT SO BAD IF TALKS ARE SUSPENDED AND THERE'S LESS TALKING.

HE SAID THERE'S BEEN TOO MUCH TALKING.

NOW, WHAT THAT MEANS IS A BIT UNCLEAR SINCE THAT WOULD LEAVE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ CLOSED AND THE ENERGY MARKETS RILED.

IT LEAVES THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION OF WHERE ARE TALKS HEADED AND WHERE ARE THEY GOING?

ISRAEL HAS ESCALATED ELSEWHERE, ONE STRIKE THAT DAMAGED A HOSPITAL.

THE STRIKE ITSELF WAS RIGHT NEXT TO THE HOSPITAL AND KILLED TWO PEOPLE.

WE'VE SEEN STRIKES IN NABATIYAH AS WE HAVE SEEN HEZBOLLAH FIRE ROCKETS AND DRONES NOT ONLY AT ISRAELI FORCES BUT DEEPER INTO NORTHERN ISRAEL.

YOU SEE THIS ESCALATION ON THE GROUND AND IRAN HAS TIED WHAT HAPPENS IN LEBANON TO THE OVERALL AGREEMENT.

IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS STILL TRYING TO PUSH FORWARD WITH DIPLOMACY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND LEBANON.

THAT AS FAR AS WE KNOW IS STILL SET TO TAKE PLACE IN THE COMING DAYS.

THE QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU GET ANYBODY HERE TO DEESCALATE?

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT TRUMP HIMSELF HAS TO FIGURE OUT.

>> I WOULD ARGUE ONLY HE CAN REALLY CONTROL AT THIS POINT.

IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE AS YOU NOTED JUST A FEW MOMENTS AGO IN AN INTERVIEW WITH NBC NEWS, HE SAID PERHAPS GOING SILENT WOULD BE VERY GOOD, SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T FEEL ANY PRESSURE TO REACH A DEAL QUICKLY.

AND HE COULD HOLD THE BLOCKADE FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES.

BUT THIS COMES AFTER THE WEEKEND WHEN THIS PROPOSED MOU BETWEEN IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES, REPORTS COMING OUT SAYING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP UNDER PRESSURE PERHAPS IS NOW OR WAS DEMANDING TOUGHER ASKS FROM IRAN.

AND IT WAS JUST A WAITING GAME FOR IRAN TO RESPOND.

HOW DO WE INTERPRET THE FACT THEN SO QUICKLY AFTER ISRAEL EXPANDED ITS OPERATION IN LEBANON THAT WE DO SEE A RESPONSE FROM IRAN?

>> Reporter: IRAN WHEN IT WANTS TO APPARENTLY CAN RESPOND RELATIVELY QUICKLY, WITHIN SEVERAL HOURS, AND DOESN'T TAKE DAYS TO COME TO A BROADER CONSENSUS.

AT LEAST BEHIND WHAT IS LIKELY BEHIND A SMALL GROUP OF DECISION MAKERS AT THE TOP OF THE REGIME.

THE REPORTS WERE THAT THE U. S. AND IRAN WERE FAIRLY CLOSE TO AN AGREEMENT AND TRUMP WAS GOING IN ON FRIDAY TO A SECURE MEETING TO MAKE A FINAL DECISION, AND YET HE COMES OUT OF THAT, OFFICIALS WHO SPOKE WITH CNN TOLD US, LOOKING FOR CHANGES ON NUCLEAR ISSUES, STRONGER WORDING THERE, AS WELL AS ON THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

THOSE ARE THE TWO KEY ISSUES AND THAT DELAYS THE ENTIRE PROCESS.

DESPITE TRUMP REPEATEDLY CLAIMING THAT IRAN WANTS A DEAL AND THEY WANT IT QUICKLY, IRAN HAS SHOWN ABSOLUTELY NO LEVERAGE OR PRESSURE TO GET TO A DEAL QUICKLY.

AND THEY ARE VERY MUCH TAKING THEIR TIME FEELING AS IF THEY'RE NEGOTIATING FROM A POSITION OF STRENGTH.

AND FOR THEM, IT'S A WAITING GAME.

AND THE U. S. WAITING WITH HIGH GAS PRICES AND THAT CLEARLY AFFECTS TRUMP DOMESTICALLY VERSUS THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE U. S. BLOCKADE.

WHO CAN WAIT FOR THAT LONGER?

IRAN IS BETTING IT'S THEM THAT CAN WAIT.

>> RIGHT.

AND ADD TO THAT THE ONGOING OR EXPANDED FIGHTING BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HEZBOLLAH, THERE IS ALSO POLITICAL PRESSURE ON PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU FACING ELECTIONS IN JUST A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, A FEW MONTHS FROM NOW.

AS SOON AS SEPTEMBER PERHAPS EVEN WHERE HE HAS CONSTANTLY BEEN UNDER PRESSURE AND PROMISING THE ISRAELI PUBLIC THAT HE WOULD BE ABLE TO DEGRADE HEZBOLLAH'S CAPABILITIES.

THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE THE CASE AS MORE AND MORE SOLDIERS AND EVEN CIVILIAN AREAS CONTINUE TO BE TARGETED.

SO WHERE DOES THAT PUT HIM WITH HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH IF THE TRUMP AND THE ISRAELI PUBLIC?

>> Reporter: ONE THING THAT'S CLEAR IS BENJAMIN NETANYAHU WILL NEVER SAY A CROSS WORD ABOUT DONALD TRUMP IN PUBLIC.

BUT TRUMP OBVIOUSLY HAS ALL THE LEVERAGE AND ALL THE PRESSURE ON NETANYAHU HERE.

AND IF NETANYAHU WANTS TO ESCALATE, IF HE WANTS TO STRIKE BEIRUT, IT WILL TAKE TRUMP'S APPROVAL THERE.

NETANYAHU HAS LOOKED FOR A DECISIVE VICTORY.

HE HASN'T GOTTEN THAT IN IRAN.

HE HASN'T GOTTEN IT IN GAZA OR LEBANON, VISA VIE HEZBOLLAH.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE FORCES THEY HAD, BUT THEY'VE USED FIRST- PERSON DRONES VERY EFFECTIVELY TO EXACT A PRICE ON ISRAELI FORCES AND ON THE COUNTRY ITSELF.

AND THAT MEANS THAT NETANYAHU IS LOOKING FOR A VICTORY THAT TRUMP MAY NOT ALLOW HIM TO HAVE IF TRUMP WANTS THAT CEASE-FIRE WITH IRAN.

>> THESE ARE THE SAME TYPES OF DRONES WE'VE BECOME FAMILIAR WITH ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN UKRAINE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH.

> >> NOW AS THIS WAR COULD BE ESCALATING AGAIN, IT IS CIVILIANS WHO ARE PAYING THE PRICE.

AFTER MONTHS UNDER SIEGE, IRAN'S ECONOMYnd INFRASTRUCTURE HAS BEEN BADLY DAMAGED.

PEOPLE THERE ARE REPORTING SHORTAGES OF SOME BASIC FOODS.

MILLIONS HAVE BEEN DISPLACED AND 10s OF THOUSANDS KILLED OR INJURED.

WE ARE IN TEHRAN, AND YOU HAVE DESCRIBED CIVILIAN LIFE AS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN SINCE THIS WAR BEGAN.

ONE WOULD ARGUE THAT EVEN PRIOR TO THE INITIAL BOMBS DROPPING IN FEBRUARY, THE IRANIAN PEOPLE WERE UNDER DIRE STRAITS THERE.

BUT BOTH FROM A HUMANITARIAN STANDPOINT AND POLITICALLY.

TELL US WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ON THE GROUND SINCE YOU'VE BEEN BACK THIS TIME MOST RECENTLY.

>> WITHIN THE FOUR DAYS THAT I HAVE BEEN CRISS CROSSING NORTH WESTERN IRAN AND NOW IN TEHRAN YOU SEE THE TRACES OF THE INTENSE BOMBARDMENT EVERYWHERE.

THERE WAS 10s OF THOUSANDS OF MISSILES AND ROCKETS AND IMPACTS IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT IT'S A HUGE PLACE.

AND OF COURSE NOW, NORMALCY IS COMING TO TEHRAN 11 MILLION INHABITANTS.

WHAT'S FORGOTTEN IS THERE ARE 4.

5 MILLION AFRICAN REFUGEES HERE, AND THEY WERE ALSO IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION AS YOU JUST INDICATED BEFORE THIS WAR.

IT'S BECOME WORSE FOR THEM BECAUSE ALSO NOW THE IRANIAN CIVILIAN POPULATION HAS BEEN SUFFERING.

MILLIONS HAVE LEFT, MANY HAVE COME BACK.

I HAVE SEEN MANY APARTMENT HOUSES DESTROYED.

I'VE SEEN SCHOOLS DAMAGED, HOSPITALS DAMAGED.

IT HAS HAD AN ENORMOUS CONSEQUENCE AND MORE THAN ANYTHING, PEOPLE ARE FEELING THE ECONOMIC FALLOUT OF THIS CONFLICT.

>> YEAH.

AND THE ECONOMY WAS IN SHAMBLES EVEN PRIOR TO THIS WAR.

I MEAN, TO REMIND VIEWERS, THE 10s OF THOUSANDS WHO REPORTED TO HAVE BEEN KILLED, THE MASS PROTESTS THAT WE SAW, THAT WAS SPURRED BY THE DETERIORATING, THE QUICKLY DETERIORATING ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY.

IF I COULD PICK BACK UP ON WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE IMPACT ON AFGHAN REFUGEES BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW 4.

4 MILLION AFGHAN REFUGEES ARE IN IRAN.

THAT'S ONE OF THE LARGEST REFUGEE POPULATIONS.

HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK WITH ANY OF THESE REFUGEES?

AND WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU, IF SO?

>> I'VE BEEN SEEING A LOT OF AFGHAN REFUGEES, FAMILIES IN THIS VISIT.

WE IN THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNSEL ARE A FRONT LINE ORGANIZATION.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING IN IRAN SINCE 2012.

WE'RE ALSO IN LEBANON, GAZA, SYRIA, ALL OF THE WAR-AFFECTED COUNTRIES OF THE REGION.

WHAT WE FEEL IS THAT VERY OFTEN, THE CIVILIAN POPULATION IS FORGOTTEN, AND MORE THAN ANYONE, THE REFUGEES AMONG THEM.

THIS IRAN IS THE LARGEST REFUGEE HOSTING COUNTRY ON EARTH.

THERE ARE MANY MORE AFGHAN REFUGEES HERE THAN THERE WOULD BE IN NORTH AMERICA OR EUROPE COMBINED.

THEY HAVE BEEN HERE, SOME OF THEM, FOR 40 YEARS.

STILL IN A VERY VULNERABLE POSITION EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE GOTTEN EDUCATION AND SOME HEALTH CARE BECAUSE MANY ARE UNDOCUMENTED, MANY HAVE COME HERE SINCE THE TALIBAN TOOK OVER IN AFGHANISTAN, AND THEY CANNOT RETURN TO AFGHANISTAN BECAUSE THE SITUATION IS SO DIRE THERE.

FOR THEM TO LOSE THE JOBS OF THE BREADWINNER, THE FATHER VERY OFTEN IN CONSTRUCTION, THE MOTHER HAS BEEN OFTEN A DOMESTIC WORKER FOR IRANIAN FAMILIES, ALL OF THAT WORK IS GONE.

AND I WAS WITH A FAMILY OF NINE AFGHANS.

THERE WERE THREE DISABLED WITH DIFFICULT DISABILITIES IN THE FAMILY.

THEY WERE IN A SMALL FLAT.

THE FATHER OF THE FAMILY WAS THE ONLY BREADWINNER.

HE WAS A SHOEMAKER.

HIS SALARY COULD BARELY MAKE THEIR RENT THAT HAS GONE UP.

SO IF THEY ARE NOT HAVING RELIEF FROM US IN THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNSEL, THAT WILL BE IN THE STREETS.

THAT IS FORGOTTEN IN THE DONOR COUNTRIES BECAUSE THEY ARE GIVING US SO LITTLE SUPPORT FOR OUR WORK IN IRAN FOR THE REFUGEES.

>> AND THAT JUST RAISES CONCERNS ABOUT SECTARIAN TENSION NOW IN THE COUNTRY AS YOU'RE SEEING IRANIANS, AFGHANS, OTHERS THAT ARE NOW HAVING TO FIGHT FOR SCARCE RESOURCES AND JOBS.

SO INFLATION, AS YOU NOTE, IS CLIMBING.

STAPLES WE'RE REPORTING LIKE MEAT, MEDICINE, FUEL ARE GETTING HARDER TO FIND AND AFFORD.

HOW IS THAT AFFECTING, FIRST OF ALL, YOUR COLLEAGUES AND THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING?

BUT I WOULD SAY MORE IMPORTANTLY, EVERYDAY LIFE FOR THOSE IN IRAN TODAY.

>> IT'S AFFECTING EVERYBODY.

YOU KNOW WHEN YOU TRAVEL IN IRAN, IT LOOKS AS IF THERE IS NORMALCY COMING BACK.

THE TRAFFIC, THE FAMOUS TRAFFIC JAMS OF TEHRAN ARE BACK.

HOWEVER, LOTS OF SHOPS HAVE CLOSED.

INDUSTRIES HAVE CLOSED DOWN.

THE PORTS HAVE BEEN LOCATED BY THE U. S. JUST AS IRAN IS NOW IMPLICATING THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

THAT IS HAVING CONSEQUENCES FOR THE IRANIAN CIVILIAN POPULATION.

THE MOST VULNERABLE ARE THE REFUGEES.

SO IT HAS A CASCADING EFFECT.

PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTING.

PEOPLE ARE YEARNING FOR A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION.

THERE HAS TO BE A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION.

AND RETURN TO WAR WOULD BE UTTERLY SENSELESS AND UTTERLY RECKLESS.

AND IT WOULD CAUSE MILLIONS INTO HORRIFIC SUFFERING.

>> WE KNOW THAT THE PARTIAL INTERNET ACCESS HAS BEEN RESTORED IN THE COUNTRY.

THE MAJORITY OF IT STILL IN THE DARK.

BUT EVEN WITH THAT, I'M JUST CURIOUS FROM THOSE THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH, THE FAMILIES THERE, HOW AWARE ARE THEY OR UP TO SPEED WITH THE STATUS OF THE CEASE-FIRE AND WHERE THE WAR AND HOW IT IMPACTS THEIR EVERYDAY LIFE.

>> WE'RE TALKING TOGETHER NOW BECAUSE OF THE PARTIAL LIFTING OF THE INTERNET BAN.

BEFORE THAT, WE HAD TO TRAVEL ALL THE TIME TO U. N. COLLEGE TO TALK AND USE THEIR ONE HOUR A DAY INTERNET CONNECTION.

NOW MORE PEOPLE ARE ONLINE.

THE RUMORS ARE RIPE.

WHAT IS TRUMP MEANING TODAY?

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TOMORROW?

WHAT WILL IRAN SAY?

WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE WILL THAT BE?

HOW WILL THE LEBANESE WAR AFFECT THE SITUATION HERE?

PEOPLE ARE WORRIED FOR THE FUTURE.

THE FEAR IS INTENSE BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS GRIPPED IN THE AFTERMATH OF A HORRIFIC WAR AND FEARING ANOTHER ONE.

>> RIGHT.

I MEAN, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW TRAUMATIZED A COUNTRY OF 90 MILLION IS AT THIS POINT HAVING EXPERIENCED NOW A WAR, A CEASE- FIRE PERHAPS THAT'S VERY FRAGILE, AND OBVIOUSLY LEADING UP TO THAT THE SLAUGHTER OF THEIR OWN NEIGHBORS.

THE NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNSEL IS REPORTING, AND YOU TOUCHED ON THIS JUST A MOMENT AGO, THAT ONLY ABOUT A THIRD OF THE FUNDING THAT YOU NEED FOR EMERGENCY RELIEF IS COMING IN.

JUST EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THAT MEANS, WHAT THAT, HOW THAT PRESENTS ITSELF IN THE WAY THAT YOU ARE THEN ABLE TO HELP THOSE IN NEED THE MOST.

>> YEAH.

BECAUSE WE'RE UNDERFUNDED EVERYWHERE NOW.

HUMANITARIAN FUNDING FROM THE UNITED STATES AND FROM MANY OTHER OF THE MOST GENEROUS DONORS HAVE GONE DOWN.

RADICALLY DOWN AT THE TIME WHEN WE HAVE RECORD NEEDS AND RECORD NUMBERS OF DISPLACED REFUGEES.

IT MEANS IN IRAN, AS IT MEANS IN LEBANON AND IN GAZA AND SYRIA AND ELSEWHERE THAT WE HAVE TO CHOOSE WHOM TO GIVE EMERGENCY RELIEF AND WHOM TO DROP.

WHERE WILL WE CUT FOOD RATIONS TO STARVING FAMILIES THAT'S THE REALITY NOW OF A WORLD WHERE THERE IS MONEY FOR BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR MILITARY CAMPAIGNS THAT LOOK AS IF THEY'RE SOLVING NOTHING.

SOLVING NOTHING IN IN THE MIDDLE EAST WAR AND THE GOLF WAR AND LEBANON AND GAZA AND ELSEWHERE.

AND WE'RE NOT EVEN HAVING FUNDING TO FEED STARVING CHILDREN.

IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING FOR US WHO ARE IN THE MIDST OF THIS.

>> STRIKES HAVE REPORTEDLY DAMAGED ABOUT 150,000 HOMES, SCHOOLS, AND OTHER BUILDINGS.

HOW IS THAT JUST PHYSICAL DAMAGE, I MEAN I KNOW YOU SAY ON THE ONE HAND IT DOES SEEM LIKE LIFE IS COMING BACK TO SOMEWHAT OF A NORMAL STATE.

BUT GIVEN ALL OF THAT DAMAGE TO INFRASTRUCTURE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THOSE THAT ARE GOING TO SCHOOL, WANTING TO GO TO WORK?

AND NEEDING MEDICAL CARE.

>> WELL, OF COURSE THE 10s OF THOUSANDS OF BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN DESTROYED AND DAMAGED.

BUT OF COURSE THERE ARE MILLIONS OF STRUCTURES IN A HUGE PLACE LIKE IRAN.

HOWEVER, I MEAN, 17 MILLION CHILDREN HAVEN'T BEEN TO SCHOOL FOR TWO MONTHS.

THEY WILL NOT RESUME EDUCATION IN CLASS UNTIL THE AUTUMN, AFTER THE SUMMER BREAK.

IT MEANS THAT HALF A YEAR WILL BE GONE OF EDUCATION FOR CHILDREN IN IRAN.

17MILLION CHILDREN, IRANIAN AND AFGHAN, I MET MANY OF THEM TODAY AND YESTERDAY, AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE BACK IN SCHOOL, WHICH IS NORMALCY, WHICH IS ALSO FOR US AN ABILITY TO GIVE TRAUMA CARE.

>> I WANT TO END BY JUST TALKING TO OUR VIEWERS ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO GET AID TO THOSE WHO NEED IT MOST.

AND THERE HAD BEEN CONCERNS, EVEN REPORTS THAT THE IRANIAN AUTHORITIES COULD BE DIVERTING AID, COULD BE DIVERTING FOOD, HUMANITARIAN RESOURCES.

SO EXPLAIN TO OUR VIEWERS ABOUT WHERE THAT AID WOULD BE GOING AND HOW TO MAKE SURE THAT IT AVOIDS FILLING THE COFFERS OF THE REGIME AND GOES TO THE PEOPLE THAT NEED IT MOST.

>> WELL, I HAVE 100 AID WORKERS ON THE GROUND HERE IN IRAN.

WE ARE INTERVIEWING EACH AND EVERY FAMILY ABOUT THEIR NEEDS.

WE ENSURE THAT IT GOES, THE FUNDING GOES DIRECTLY TO THE FAMILY THAT ARE HOMELESS, THAT ARE, LIKE THE FAMILY I JUST MENTIONED, NINE FAMILY MEMBERS, THREE DISABLES, AND THEY WILL BE ON THE STREET UNLESS WE GIVE THEM THIS SUBSIDY FOR RENT AS AN EMERGENCY MEASURE.

WE HAVE TOTAL CONTROL OF OUR WORK FOR THE REFUGEES, WHETHER THAT IS IN IRAN, LEBANON, GAZA, SYRIA, OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

I WOULD SAY, AND I'VE BEEN AT THIS NOW FOR 40 YEARS, THERE'S BETTER CONTROL OF FUNDING FOR HUMANITARIAN RELIEF MONITORING EVALUATION AUDITING THAN THERE WOULD BE FOR MOST PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SPENDING, INCLUDING MILITARY SPENDING ELSEWHERE.

THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO HELP US AID PEOPLE NOW THAT ARE BEING DISPLACED AND STARVING CAN BE SURE THAT THIS WILL REACH THE PEOPLE IT MOST NEEDS.

>> THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR OUR VIEWERS TO HEAR.

YOU DID MENTION GAZA, AND I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE LINES THAT WE'VE HEARD RECENTLY FROM PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU UNDER THE DEAL BACK IN OCTOBER.

THE IDF WAS TO HOLD 53% OF THIS TRIP, NOW PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAYS HE WANTS TO EXPAND THAT TO 70%.

THIS IS AS THEY'RE STILL STRUGGLING TO HAVE HAMAS DISARM IN THE ENCLAVE.

SO THAT RAISES THE QUESTION ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION THERE.

WHAT ARE YOUR AID WORKERS ON THE GROUND, IF YOU STILL HAVE ANY, IN GAZA WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU ABOUT THE LATEST NEEDS?

>> THEY ARE TELLING US THAT THE DESPERATION IS WIDENING.

GAZA IS A TINY PLACE, AND MORE AND MORE IS TAKEN BY THE MILITARY MACHINE OF NETANYAHU.

THEY ARE CRAMMED TOGETHER IN A SMALLER AND SMALLER SPACE, AND THEY ARE 60, 70, 80% WOMEN AND CHILDREN THAT HAVE NOTHING.

NOTHING TO DO WITH HAMAS.

HAMAS HAS NOT DISARMED, YES.

ISRAEL HAS NOT WITHDRAWN AS THEY SHOULD.

NO ONE HAS BEEN FOLLOWING UP ON THE TRUMP PEACE PLAN, AND THE UNITED STATES IS NOT PUSHING IT THROUGH AS THEY PROMISED US TO DO.

ISRAEL HAS ON ITS SIDE CUT OUT MOST OF THE AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN AND INTERNATIONAL AID GROUPS FROM GAZA.

THERE ARE FEWER AND FEWER THAT ARE ALLOWED TO DO NORMAL WORK THERE.

THERE IS NO COMPASSION WITH THE PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

IT'S ONLY NOW MEN WITH GUNS AND POWER THAT ARE IN SOME KIND OF A MATCH FOR SOMETHING AND THE CIVILIAN POPULATION IS SUFFERING MORE AND MORE.

>> I HATE TO LEAVE IT ON SUCH A PESSIMISTIC NOTE, BUT YOU ARE GIVING US THE LAY OF THE LAND RIGHT NOW.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND ALL THE WORK YOU'RE DOING ON THE GROUND THERE IN IRAN.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> NEXT, ONE WOMAN VERSUS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

MAGAZINE COLUMNIST E. JEAN CARROLL STUNNED THE WORLD IN 2019 WHEN SHE WROTE IN A MEMOIR THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD RAPED HER IN THE 1990s.

TRUMP DENIED THE ALLEGATIONS, BUT CAROLL HAS SUED HIM TWICE FOR DEFAMATION AND SEXUAL ASSAULT AND WON.

THINGS HAVE ESCALATED AGAIN AS THE DOJ IS INVESTIGATING CAROLL FOR POSSIBLE PERJURY DURING HER TESTIMONY.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY IS LOOKING AT THE WOMAN AT THE CENTER OF IT.

HERE'S A SHORT CLIP.

>> ALL MY DREAMS WERE ABOUT BECOMING AN ADVICE COLUMNIST.

ROGER GAVE ME MY OWN TV SHOW.

>> YOU DON'T REALLY CARE WHO COMMENTS ON ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU COMMENT ON EVERYTHING.

>> IF YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BEING DRAGGED THROUGH THE MUD, WHY WOULD YOU CHOOSE TO SUE DONALD TRUMP?

>> BECAUSE HE CALLED ME A LIAR, AND I COULDN'T LET IT STAND.

>> IVY, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THIS FILM, ASK E JEAN, IS ABOUT A WOMAN WHO TELLS HER STORY.

SHE BEAT DONALD TRUMP IN COURT TWICE, CONTINUED TO BE INSULTED BY TRUMP, THREATENED BY HIS FOLLOWERS, AND NOW FACING AS WE REPORTED NEW THREATS FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT CNN WAS THE FIRST TO REPORT.

YOU DESCRIBE THIS DOCUMENTARY AS A WILDLY UNCERTAIN AND AT TIMES TERRIFYING RIDE.

TELL US WHAT DREW YOU TO THIS STORY AND TO E JEAN IN PARTICULAR.

>> SURE.

WELL, IN 2019 WHEN E JEAN FIRST PUBLISHED THE EXCERPT FROM HER BOOK WHAT DO WE NEED MEN FOR?

I READ IT IN NEW YORK MAGAZINE, AS MANY PEOPLE DID, AND I DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT E. JEAN CARROLL PARTICULARLY, AND I WAS SO STRUCK BY HER VOICE, HOW UNAPOLOGETIC IT WAS, AND HOW SHE WAS KIND OF REFUSING TO BE FLATTENED IN THE WAY THAT WOMEN WHO COME FORWARD WITH THESE STORIES OFTEN DO.

AND I JUST, I REACHED OUT TO HER, AND I WAS JUST, I DIDN'T EXPECT HER TO BE AS FUNNY AND AS BRAVE AND INSPIRING AS SHE TURNED OUT TO BE.

SO THAT'S REALLY, THAT WAS THE HOOK FOR HOW I FIRST BEGAN THIS LONG OVER-SIX-YEAR JOURNEY WITH HER.

>> YOU HAVE A NAME FOR PEOPLE WHO CROSS DONALD TRUMP, TRUMP EFFECT.

WERE YOU AFRAID OVER THE COURSE OF SIX YEARS MAKING THE FILM, WERE YOU WORRIED AT ALL PERSONALLY ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD IMPACT YOU?

>> I DID AT TIMES ACTUALLY WORRY.

I, YOU KNOW, IT WAS UNCLEAR, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU KNOW, WHO WOULD BE TARGETED FOR BEING, YOU KNOW, PART OF TELLING THE STORY AND BRINGING IT OUT.

WE HAD A LOT OF TROUBLE RAISING MONEY.

WE HAD TROUBLE ONCE WE DID RAISE MONEY WITH PEOPLE FEELING NERVOUS AND WANTING THEIR NAMES OFF THE FILM.

AND SO YOU KNOW, OF COURSE THAT STARTS TO HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON EVERYBODY INVOLVED.

BUT I ALWAYS SAY IT'S DIFFICULT TO SPEND TIME WITH E. JEAN CARROLL AND ROBBY CAPLIN ON THIS, ON THEIR PURSUIT OF JUSTICE MADE ALL OF US WHO DID STICK WITH THE FILM FEEL BRAVER.

>> ROBBY CAPLIN BEING E. JEAN CARROLL'S ATTORNEY.

FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO WEREN'T FAMILIAR WITH E. JEAN CARROLL, SHE WAS A WELL-KNOWN PUBLIC FIGURE IN NEW YORK CITY, HAD HER OWN PROGRAM OFFERING ADVICE TO WOMEN, IN MANY WAYS A TRAILBLAZER IN THIS FIELD WRITING FIRST IN PRINT AND THEN GOING ON TV.

JUST TALK ABOUT WHO SHE WAS AT HER HEIGHT AND THERE WAS A REAL MOMENT IN THIS FILM WHERE SHE'S SPEAKING WITH ONE OF HER FRIENDS WHO RECALLED THAT AT ONE POINT, YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP, WE ALL KNOW HIM AS A LARGER THAN LIFE CELEBRITY IN THE '90s AND EARLY 2000S, AND THEN OBVIOUSLY PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD.

BUT AT THAT TIME, HER FRIEND REALLY SAID E JEAN, YOU WERE MORE PROMINENT THAN HE WAS FOR MANY PEOPLE.

JUST TELL US ABOUT HER LIFE.

>> SURE.

AND THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT.

WHEN THEY MET AT THE DOORS OF BERGDORF-GOODMAN AND TRUMP SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW HER AT ALL, HE RECOGNIZED HER FIRST AS YOU'RE THAT ADVICE LADY.

AND SHE SAID YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, THAT REAL ESTATE TYCOON.

E JEAN WAS, AS I DISCOVER, BECAUSE AS I SAID I DIDN'T KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT HER, AT THE TIME SHE RAN INTO DONALD TRUMP IN 1996, SHE HAD HER OWN TELEVISION SHOW CALLED THE ASK E JEAN SHOW THAT ROGER ALES HAD GIVEN HER ON HIS NETWORK AMERICA'S TALKING.

SHE HAD THE MOST POPULAR ADVICE COLUMN IN L MAGAZINE AT THE TIME.

SHE WAS WELL ESTABLISHED AS A MAJOR JOURNALIST, ONE OF THE ONLY WOMEN WRITING FOR MAJOR MAGAZINES, PARTICULARLY MALE- ORIENTED MAGAZINES LIKE ESQUIRE AND OUTSIDE.

SHE BECAME THE FIRST FEMALE EDITOR OF PLAYBOY MAGAZINE AND AT ESQUIRE.

SHE WAS A VERY WELL-ESTABLISHED FIGURE AND A SERIOUS WRITER.

>> AS A POPULAR ADVICE COLUMNIST, E. JEAN CARROLL TOOK A TOUGH LINE ON THESE VERY ISSUES IN TELLING WOMEN TO LET GO OF ALL OF THEIR GUILT IF THEY CAME TO HER AND SPOKE OF THE ABUSES THAT THEY EXPERIENCED.

AND SHE TOLD THEM TO PRESS CHARGES.

BUT I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP FROM THE DOCUMENTARY AS I NOTED WHEN SHE WAS SPEAKING WITH HER FRIEND LISA BURNBACK WHO WAS A WRITER AND HUMORIST AND WHO E JEAN TURNED TO IMMEDIATELY AFTER THIS EXPERIENCE THAT SHE SAYS OCCURRED WITH THE PRESIDENT, WITH TRUMP AT THE TIME.

SHE RAISED THIS, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE YOU TELLING PEOPLE TO DO CERTAIN THINGS AND YOU, IN FACT, DIDN'T FOR SO MANY YEARS.

LET'S PLAY THE CLIP.

>> I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT YOU WOULDN'T REPORT HIM.

>> LISA, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE BELIEVED ME.

I WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED.

I DIDN'T HAVE MONEY TO GET AN ATTORNEY.

EVERYTHING I'D WORKED FOR WOULD BE DISSIPATED.

>> YOU SAID DON'T EVER SPEAK OF THIS AGAIN.

DON'T EVER TELL ANYONE THIS STORY AS LONG AS YOU LIVE.

DO I HAVE YOUR WORD?

AND YOU DID.

AND THAT WAS THAT.

>> SO WHAT DID YOU END UP LEARNING ABOUT WHAT ULTIMATELY LED HER TO COME OUT AND SPEAK HER EXPERIENCE AND HER TRUTH?

>> SO THIS WAS REALLY THE PART OF HER STORY THAT MADE THIS FILM FEEL LIKE SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST ABOUT CAROLL V TRUMP.

E JEAN WAS WILLING TO LOOK AT HERSELF IN A WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE NEVER DO.

AT AGE 75 KIND OF LOOKING BACK AT THE ADVICE SHE GAVE AND HOW SHE ACCOMMODATED MEN, MEANWHILE BEING THIS FIERCE, FEARLESS PERSON HERSELF WHO STAYED SILENT.

IT WAS REALLY THE ME TOO MOVEMENT THAT GALVANIZED E JEAN.

SHE WAS SO MOVED BY THE STORIES THAT WERE COMING OUT AND THAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY GAINING JUSTICE, THAT MEN WERE BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE, WHICH IS SOMETHING E JEAN HADN'T EXPERIENCED AND DIDN'T EXPECT.

AND I THINK IT MOVED HER SO MUCH, BUT IT WAS ALSO HER OWN READERS COMING TO HER AT THAT TIME AND SAYING WE, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE DO?

WE HAVE SIMILAR STORIES, SIMILAR EXPERIENCES.

WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

SO IT FELT REALLY PRESSING TO HER TO TELL HER OWN STORIES, SHARE THEM WITH HER READERS, AND I LOOK AT IT NOW AS CARING ABOUT HERSELF.

>> ON MAY 9th, A JURY FOUND THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS LIABLE FOR SEXUAL ABUSE AND DEFAMATION AND AWARDED E. JEAN CARROLL $5 MILLION IN DAMAGE.

HE HAS DENIED ALL OF THESE CHARGES AND ACCUSATIONS TO THIS DAY, CALLING THIS A FAKE STORY, A MADE-UP STORY.

AND HE DIDN'T TESTIFY IN THE FIRST TRIAL, AND HE DID TESTIFY IN THE SECOND.

AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID ABOUT WHY HE DIDN'T TESTIFY IN THE FIRST.

>> THIS IS A RIGGED DEAL.

THIS WAS A, MY LAWYER SAID SIR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT.

I ACTUALLY SAID I THINK I SHOULD, IT WOULD BE RESPECTFUL.

THEY SAID SIR, DON'T DO IT.

THIS IS A FAKE STORY AND YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE IT CREDIBILITY.

[APPLAUSE] >> AND I SWEAR, I'VE NEVER DONE THAT, AND I SWEAR I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE HELL.

SHE'S A WACK JOB.

>> AND IT WAS COMMENTS LIKE THIS, BOTH IN INTERVIEWS AND ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAT ULTIMATELY LED E JEAN TO SUE DONALD TRUMP AGAIN.

THE SECOND JURY WAS ANNOUNCED AT $83.

3 MILLION IN DAMAGES.

I DON'T BELIEVE, HAS ANY OF THAT BEEN PAID YET?

>> NO.

>> NO.

>> NOTHING.

>> SO THEN LET ME ASK YOU YOUR REACTION TO THE NEWS LAST WEEK OF AN INVESTIGATION PERHAPS FROM THE DOJ.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS CONFIRMED FROM THE DOJ JUST YET, BUT CNN HAD BEEN REPORTING IT.

JUST YOUR REACTION TO THAT NEWS, AND WHAT DID E JEAN SAY IF YOU SPOKE WITH HER RECENTLY?

>> UM, WELL I ACTUALLY HAVEN'T SPOKEN WITH E JEAN RECENTLY.

SHE AND ROBBY AND THE WHOLE TEAM ARE REALLY IN THE MIDST OF, YOU KNOW, THE TWO CASES HEADING TO THE SUPREME COURT, AND THEN THIS RECENT ATTACK FROM THE DOJ.

SO I, YOU KNOW, I'VE SAID I, YOU KNOW, I FOUND IT UNBELIEVABLE BUT NOT SURPRISING.

I DID REACT VERY STRONGLY, BUT THEN STARTED TO THINK OH, YOU KNOW WHAT?

IT'S CONSISTENT, YOU KNOW?

STARTING WITH COMEY AND LETITIA JAMES.

THERE IS SOME PA TERN HERE THAT'S CLEAR, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHEN YOU WATCH THE FILM, WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT THIS FILM IS THE ANTIDOTE TO THAT.

HE IS KIND OF BULLYING AND TRYING TO SILENCE E JEAN IS VERY CLEAR, AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, I MEAN THERE ARE NO, THERE ARE NO FACTS THAT I CAN CITE OR ANY WAY TO GIVE ANY CREDENCE TO IF, YOU KNOW, THIS INVESTIGATION, IF IT IS A REAL INVESTIGATION.

>> THE U. S. ATTORNEY PUT OUT A STATEMENT TODAY SAYING IT HAS NOT OPENED AND NEVER OPENED A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION INTO E. JEAN CARROLL.

WE HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT HERE.

JUST THE CONNECTIONS HERE.

YOUR GRANDPARENTS WERE JULIUS AND ETHEL ROSENBERG.

THEY WERE EXECUTED.

YOU MADE A FILM ABOUT THEM.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE, JUST THE KNOWING THE CONNECTION THERE GOING BACK SO MANY GENERATIONS FOR YOU?

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW I THINK I HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, IT'S IN MY DNA TO WANT TO EXPOSE ABUSE OF POWER.

AND ALSO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND SEEK JUSTICE.

SO YOU KNOW, I MADE THE ROY COMB FILM AFTER DONALD TRUMP WAS FIRST ELECTED BECAUSE I WANTED PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE HE COMES FROM AND WHO HELPED CREATE HIM.

AND THIS CULTURE OF FEAR THAT HAS REALLY INFECTED OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW AND SPECIFICALLY THE PROCESS OF MAKING THIS FILM AND E JEAN HERSELF COMES DIRECTLY FROM THAT LINEAGE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THANKS FOR SHARING THE FILM WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THANK YOU.

> >> NOW STORYTELLING IS A POWERFUL TOOL FOR CONNECTION AND FOR PRESERVING THE MEMORIES OF OUR LOVED ONES.

THAT IS PARTICULARLY TRUE FOR TWO-TIME NATIONAL BOOK AWARD WINNER JASMINE WARD WHO HAS FOUND SOLACE IN STORYTELLING AFTER HER GRANDMOTHER PASSED AWAY FROM ALZHEIMER'S.

SHE DISCUSSES HOW HER WRITING HAS HELPED RESTORE HER HOPE AFTER DESPAIR.

>> WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> THE FIRST CHAPTER OF YOUR BOOKENDS WITH THE SIX MAGIC WORDS I THINK OF ANY WRITER, WHICH IS LET ME TELL YOU A STORY.

AND THAT'S THE THEME OF THE BOOK, IS THE POWER OF STORYTELLING.

TELL ME WHY YOU FIND STORYTELLING SO IMPORTANT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK BACK TO I DON'T KNOW TO WHEN I WAS GROWING UP.

I COME FROM A REALLY BIG FAMILY IN RURAL MISSISSIPPI.

HUGE EXTENDED FAMILY.

AND WHEN WE GATHERED, WE CELEBRATED AND ATE AND DRANK.

BUT ALSO, THE OLDER PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY TOLD STORIES.

AND SO I GREW UP AROUND STORYTELLERS.

I GREW UP HEARING STORIES OF MY GRANDPARENTS, MY GREAT GRANDPARENTS.

SO I DON'T KNOW, I FEEL LIKE STORYTELLING HAS ALWAYS BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT TO HOW I UNDERSTAND MYSELF AND TO HOW I UNDERSTAND MY COMMUNITY AND MY FAMILY AND THE PEOPLE AROUND ME.

>> WELL, LET ME FOCUS ON THE GREAT STORYTELLER IN YOUR BOOK, WHICH IS YOUR GRANDMOTHER.

AND SHE TOLD STORIES THAT HAD A MORAL PURPOSE TO THEM AS WELL.

JUST TELL ME ABOUT HER.

TELL ME ABOUT SITTING ON HER LAP.

>> YEAH.

SO WHEN I SPEAK ABOUT MY GRANDMOTHER, I'M SPEAKING ABOUT MY MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER, MY MOM'S MOM.

AND I GREW UP WITH HER.

I MEAN, SHE WAS A SECOND, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY A SECOND, I GUESS A THIRD PARENTAL FIGURE FOR ME.

I GREW UP IN THE HER HOUSEHOLD BECAUSE ME AND MY NUCLEAR FAMILY HAD TO LIVE WITH HER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

SHE, WHEN SHE TOLD STORIES, SHE WAS ALWAYS, IT WAS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO HER THAT SHE WAS TELLING THE WHOLE STORY, RIGHT?

TELLING THE GOOD WITH THE BAD.

YOU KNOW, SHE WAS, AND HER STORIES, THERE WAS A SERIOUS WEIGHT AT THE CENTER OF THEM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE WAS A SERIOUS WEIGHT AT THE CENTER OF THEM, HER STORIES WERE ALSO FUNNY.

YOU KNOW, THEY WERE ALSO FULL OF LOVE AND JOY AND CONNECTION.

AND YOU KNOW, SHE DID NOT HAVE AN EASY LIFE.

YOU KNOW, SHE DID NOT COMPLETE HIGH SCHOOL.

SHE NEVER GRADUATED.

SHE EARNED HER GED.

SHE WORKED REALLY HARD THROUGHOUT HER LIFE, YOU KNOW, AS A HOUSEKEEPER AND LATER AS A FACTORY WORKER.

BUT SHE EMBRACED LIFE.

>> LET ME QUOTE HER FROM THE WAY YOU QUOTE HER IN THIS BOOK OF ESSAYS, WHICH IS YOU SAY MY DOROTHY WAS THE FIRST STORYTELLER OF MY LIFE.

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSONS SHE TAUGHT ME ABOUT LIFE AND STORY WAS THIS: TELL IT STRAIGHT, TELL IT ALL.

AND THAT'S WHAT THIS BOOK OF ESSAYS HAVE IN FICTION, YOUR NOVELS HAVE IT, WHICH IS YOU DON'T SORT OF SUGARCOAT THINGS, AND YET THERE'S A CORE OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM THAT COMES THROUGH.

>> UH-HUH.

YEAH.

I MEAN, THERE ARE TWO REASONS FOR THAT.

THE FIRST REASON IS BECAUSE WRITING, YOU KNOW, IN THAT WAY IS I'M BEING HONEST ABOUT WHAT I SEE IN MY FAMILY, IN MY EXTENDED FAMILY, AND IN MY COMMUNITY, RIGHT?

AND THEN THE SECOND REASON, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME TO BE HONEST IN MY WORK IN THAT WAY IS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO CAME BEFORE ME AND MY PARENTS, MY GRANDPARENTS, MY GREAT GRANDPARENTS, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THIS PLACE AND WHO MADE ME WHAT I AM TODAY, THEY ALWAYS, THEY LIVED THEIR LIVES THAT WAY, RIGHT?

THEY EMBRACED THE TRUTH OF THEIR LIVES.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEY NEVER LOST A SENSE OF HOPE.

THEY HELD THAT CLOSE TO THEM.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO THRIVE AND NOT JUST SURVIVE THEIR LIVES.

>> YEAH.

AND YOU TALK ABOUT SURVIVE.

AND ONCE AGAIN, THE LAST SENTENCE OF YOUR BOOK REPEATS THE THEME.

YOU SAY YOU TELL STORIES, YOU TELL THEIR STORIES, YOU TELL YOUR STORY.

YOU SURVIVE.

AND SO HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO THE SURVIVAL THAT WE BECOME A SPECIES OF STORYTELLERS?

>> I THINK IT'S ESSENTIAL.

BECAUSE STORYTELLING ENABLES US, I THINK, TO CONNECT THE DOTS IN OUR LIVES, TO CARRY A SENSE OF MEANING IN OUR LIVES.

YOU KNOW, WE ALSO USE STORYTELLING TO CONNECT TO OTHERS, AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TOO.

>> ONE OF THE SAD THINGS I NOTICED IN THE BOOK IS THAT SHE DEVELOPS ALZHEIMER'S.

WHAT DO YOU LEARN FROM THAT WHEN SHE CAN NO LONGER REMEMBER THE STORIES?

>> UM, IT'S HEARTBREAKING REALLY.

YOU KNOW, SHE WAS A STORYTELLER.

MY GRANDMOTHER HAD SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE, I THINK, OF MY FAMILY AND OF MY COMMUNITY AND OUR HISTORY.

AND SO WHEN SHE BEGAN TO LOSE HER STORIES, SHE LOST AN IMPORTANT PART OF HERSELF, I THINK.

AND YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SHE WAS THE FIRST STORYTELLER OF MY LIFE, BECAUSE SHE HELPED ME TO LEARN TO SEE THE WORLD THROUGH STORIES AND THROUGH CONNECTIONS, IT WAS HEARTBREAKING I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR ME TO WITNESS HER LOSING THOSE STORIES.

>> BUT DO YOU FEEL YOU'RE CARRYING ON HER WORK?

>> I HOPE SO.

[LAUGHTER] >> I HOPE SO.

YOU KNOW, SHE WAS AN EXCEPTIONAL, YOU KNOW, STORYTELLER, LIKE IN PERSON.

AN ORAL STORYTELLER.

YOU KNOW, I PRACTICE IN A DIFFERENT MEDIUM.

BUT I DON'T KNOW, I HOPE THAT I'M CARRYING ON HER LEGACY AND THAT I'M MAKING HER PROUD.

>> ONE OF THE COMPLEXITIES OF RACE YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS WHEN YOUR GRANDMOTHER DOROTHY GOES TO VISIT HER WHITE AUNTIE.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S ONE OF THE EARLIEST STORIES THAT MY GRANDMOTHER TOLD ME.

YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, SHE WAS VERY INTENT ON TELLING YOU THE WHOLE TRUTH, BUT THAT WAS ONE OF THE EARLIEST STORIES THAT SHE TOLD ME.

SO YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY IS MIXED, I GUESS.

AND SO SHE WOULD VISIT HER WHITE, I GUESS HER GRAND-AUNT.

SO IT WAS HER GRANDMOTHER'S SISTER WHO WAS WHITE, AND HER GRANDMOTHER WAS WHITE.

AND THEY ACTUALLY LIVED UP IN MISSISSIPPI WHICH IS SORT OF NORTH.

THEY WOULD VISIT DURING THE DAYTIME, RIGHT, AND YOU KNOW HER WHITE GRANDMOTHER WOULD GO, AND THEN HER DAD.

AND THEN ALL THE KIDS WOULD SORT OF PILE IN THE CAR.

BUT WHEN SUNSET APPROACHED, HER AUNT WOULD SAY OKAY, IT'S TIME FOR YA'LL TO GO.

>> AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT WAS A WHITE COMMUNITY AND DELISLE WAS A BLACK COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE ABUTTING EACH OTHER.

>> SHE WAS CONCERNED FOR THEIR SAFETY, RIGHT, IF THEY WERE THERE DURING THE NIGHT.

AND SO THEY WOULD PILE BACK INTO THE CAR, BUT MY GRANDMOTHER WAS A BROWN-SKINNED WOMAN, AND ALL OF HER SIBLINGS WERE VARYING SHADES OF BROWN.

LIKE YOU COULD TELL THEY WERE MIXED.

AND SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO HIDE IN THE TRUNK OF THE CAR, AND SHE WOULD ALWAYS TELL ME, SHE'D ALWAYS SAY WE CALLED IT THE BOOT.

WE WOULD ALL HAVE TO CLIMB INTO THE TRUNK OF THE CAR, AND THEY WOULD CLOSE THE BOOT.

EVEN THOUGH THE SUN HADN'T EVEN SET YET, BUT THAT'S HOW THEY WOULD RIDE BACK.

AND HER GRANDMOTHER WOULD SIT IN FRONT, AND THEN HER FATHER WHO WAS SO LIGHT SKINNED THAT HE COULD PASS FOR WHITE IF NEED BE, THEY WOULD SIT IN THE FRONT.

>> THIS GREAT BOOK, WHICH I LOVED, IS CALLED ON WITNESS AND RESPARE.

I KNOW A LOT OF WORDS, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THE WORD RESPAIR.

>> I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE POET WHO TAUGHT ME THE WORD.

IT WAS A POET I FOLLOWED.

AND IN 2020, THEY MADE A NUMBER OF POSTS ABOUT HOW THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT THE WORD RESPAIR AND HOLDING THAT WORD CLOSE TO THEM.

I THOUGHT I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT THAT MEANS.

THEN THEY EXPLAINED WHAT IT MEANS, AND THAT IT MEANS TO FIND HOPE AFTER DESPAIR.

AND I, YOU KNOW, I THINK I LIT UP, YOU KNOW, LIKE NOW WHEN I READ IT BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT'S A REAL SHAME THAT WE'VE LOST THAT WORD AND THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT WORD BECAUSE NOW THAT I KNOW IT, IT FEELS LIKE AN ESSENTIAL CONCEPT, AN ESSENTIAL IDEA.

AND SO I MADE NOTE OF IT, RIGHT?

AND SO THEN WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE ESSAY ABOUT MY PARTNER, MY SPOUSE WHO DIED IN EARLY 2020, I THOUGHT THIS IS A PERFECT WORD TO SHARE, YOU KNOW, IN THIS ESSAY.

>> WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG IN THE LIBRARY IN MISSISSIPPI, THERE WAS A MAP OF MISSISSIPPI WRITERS, AND IT HAD BLACK AND WHITE.

IT HAD RICHARD WRIGHT, RICHARD FAULKNER, BUT YOU STARTED READING THESE PEOPLE.

LET ME START WITH FAULKNER.

I HAVE AN ODD THEORY ABOUT YOUR BOOK, WHICH YOU MAY PUSH BACK ON.

WHICH IS DELISLE AND ALL YOUR NOVELS ARE IN THIS TOWN.

IT'S LIKE THE COUNTY IS TO FAULKNER.

YOU HAVE CLINTON SITTING AT AUNT ROSA'S FEET LISTENING TO THE STORYTELLING OF IT.

HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU'RE SIMILAR AND HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DIFFERENT FROM FAULKNER?

BECAUSE YOU BOTH WRITE ABOUT RACE IN THESE TINY COMMUNITIES.

>> I MEAN, I THINK THAT I DEFINITELY SORT OF MODELED THIS IDEA OF WRITING ABOUT A COMMUNITY, WRITING ABOUT A TOWN, AND ALSO FICTIONALIZING BASICALLY MY HOMETOWN IN THIS AREA ALONG THE GULF COAST BECAUSE I READ FAULKNER AND BECAUSE I SAW WHAT HE DID IN HIS WORK AND HOW HE MADE THAT PLACE SEEM ALIVE AND COMPLICATED AND REAL, RIGHT?

AND SO YES, I THINK I DEFINITELY MODELED MY FICTION AFTER HIS.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS SENSE OF ATMOSPHERE IN HIS WORK THAT I THINK THAT I ALSO TRY TO, I DON'T KNOW, TRANSLATE INTO MY OWN WORK.

>> LET ME TAKE THE BLACK WRITER THAT YOU LOVED TOO GROWING UP, WHICH IS RICHARD WRIGHT.

AND YET YOU SAY SOMETHING OF HIM THAT'S ODD.

YOU SAY HE WRITES WITH RANKOR.

DID THAT BOTHER YOU?

>> I THINK IT DID BOTHER ME.

AT THE TIME, I DON'T THINK I COULD HAVE ARTICULATED IT, BUT AS I'VE SORT OF GROWN AND DEVELOPED AS A WRITER AND I THINK ABOUT HIS, I THOUGHT ABOUT HIS EARLIER WORK.

I THINK THAT THE, LET'S SEE, THE HARSHNESS, LIKE THE HARSH NATURE OF HIS GROWING UP IN MISSISSIPPI, LIKE THAT WAS ALWAYS CRYSTAL CLEAR IN HIS WORK, RIGHT?

AND REALLY VIVID AND WELL DEVELOPED.

BUT I WAS LOOKING, I THINK, FOR SOMETHING MORE.

I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW HE SURVIVED MISSISSIPPI.

BECAUSE I FELT LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, AT LEAST FOR ME, FAMILY AND COMMUNITY ARE AT THE HEART OF SURVIVING AND THRIVING.

>> HE DOESN'T EXACTLY SURVIVE MISSISSIPPI BECAUSE HE LEAVES, AND I THINK YOU KIND OF BLAME HIM FOR LEAVING.

AND YOU COME HOME.

>> I DO.

>> LET ME LEAP TO THAT.

WHY DID YOU COME HOME?

>> YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T, I DON'T SAY THAT I, I DON'T THINK THAT I BLAME HIM FOR LEAVING MISSISSIPPI BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND.

I FLED WHEN I GRADUATED.

AS SOON AS I GOT THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET OUT OF MISSISSIPPI, I LEFT, AND I SPENT MUCH OF MY YOUNG ADULTHOOD, YOU KNOW, INTO MY 30s FOR I DON'T KNOW 15, 16, 17 YEARS LIVING IN OTHER PLACES.

BUT THEN I RETURNED AS AN ADULT.

I USUALLY SAY THE REASON I RETURNED IS BECAUSE AT THE SAME TIME THAT I, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT I LOATHE ABOUT THIS PLACE, I ALSO LOVE THIS PLACE.

>> TORTURED LOVE I THINK IS YOUR PHRASE.

>> I LOVE THE LANDSCAPE.

I LOVE THE BEAUTY OF THE PLACE.

I LOVE THE PEOPLE, RIGHT?

MY FAMILY IS HERE.

I HAVE A HUGE EXTENDED FAMILY.

JUST ON MY MOM'S MOM'S SIDE, MY MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER'S SIDE, THERE ARE OVER 200 OF US ON THAT SIDE OF MY FAMILY.

SO I HAVE A HUGE EXTENDED FAMILY.

I HAVE, YOU KNOW, A COMMUNITY, A REALLY SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK IT'S HARD TO RESIST THE LURE OF THOSE.

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE PLACE THAT INSPIRES ME, RIGHT?

THIS IS A PLACE THAT INFORMS MY WORK.

AND SO I THINK I WANTED TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT I COULD LIVE AND WORK HERE AS AN ADULT.

AND SO FAR, I'M DOING IT.

>> YOUR NOVELS, ALL OF THEM, EVEN SALVAGE THE BONES END, I THINK, WITH HOPEFUL NOTES.

IS THAT RIGHT?

AND WHY?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK ALL MY WORK, THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF HOPE, I THINK, IN ALL OF MY WORK.

PART OF THE REASON I THINK THAT IS TRUE AND PERHAPS THE MOST ESSENTIAL REASON IS BECAUSE AS I SAID, I LOOK AT MY GRANDMOTHER'S LIFE, I LOOK AT MY GREAT GRANDPARENTS' LIFE.

WHEN I WAS GROWING UP WHEN I WAS A KID, SEVERAL OF MY GREAT GRANDPARENTS WERE STILL ALIVE, RIGHT?

AND SO I, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THEIR LIVES, AND THEY, WITHOUT SOME SENSE OF HOPE, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT SOME SENSE OF HOPE THAT THEY COULD SORT OF LIVE THEIR WAY TO A BETTER TOMORROW AND THEY COULD HELP SORT OF CREATE A BETTER TOMORROW.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD HAVE, I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD HAVE SURVIVED, YOU KNOW, MISSISSIPPI IN THE '20s AND '30s AND '40s AND '50s.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, I TRY TO HONOR THAT IN MY CREATIVE NON- FICTION.

BUT IN MY FICTION AS WELL.

>> WE'RE ABOUT TO HAVE OUR 250th BIRTHDAY AS A NATION.

IT'S A TIME OF A LOT OF DESPAIR AND A LOT OF DISCORD.

WHAT LESSONS FROM POOR, BLACK COMMUNITY IN MISSISSIPPI DO YOU HAVE FOR THE NATION?

>> UH, WELL I THINK WE HAVE TO FOLLOW MY GRANDMOTHER DOROTHY'S LEAD, RIGHT?

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO TELL THE WHOLE STORY, TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH.

EVEN IF IT MAKES US UNCOMFORTABLE, WE HAVE TO RECKON, AND WE HAVE TO WITNESS WITH IT ALL.

BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE GET TO, I THINK, A FULLER UNDERSTANDING OF WHO WE ARE AND OF WHAT WE CAN BECOME.

AND I THINK THAT'S HOW WE ALSO STILL HOLD ONTO A SENSE OF HOPE, ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IN A MOMENT THAT FOR MANY OF US, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US FROM MY NECK OF THE WOODS THAT CAN FEEL RATHER HOPELESS.

>> JASMINE WARD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

> >> AND FINALLY, BACK FROM THE BRINK OF EXTINCTION.

EIGHT ENDANGERED CRESTED IVACES HAVE BEEN RELEASED INTO THE WILD IN CENTRAL JAPAN IN A BID TO REBUILD THEIR POPULATION.

IT'S QUITE THE COMEBACK.

THE BIRD TECHNICALLY WENT EXTINCT IN 2003 THERE.

CONSERVATION BREEDING PROGRAMS HAVE HELPED GRADUALLY BRING THE SPECIES BACK.

IT HAS BEEN AN ENDANGERED SPECIES FOR DECADES DUE TO OVERHUNTING AND ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION.

> >> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

>