> > This week on the Wheelhouse community of federal focused on fossil sunsetting federal tax credits.

What it all means for the green economy.

> > for > > Connecticut Public on Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.

It's a show that connects politics.

The people we got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

Federal tax credits incentivizing many forms of green energy expire at the end of the year.

In Connecticut.

State leaders have been forced to ration electric vehicle rebates in anticipation of a spike in purchases before the Trump administration sunsets, federal tax credits that expire at the end of this month.

State Energy and Environmental Protection Commissioner Katie D**** is getting the word out about the credits and how Connecticut residents should proceed.

She joins us right now in the studio to talk about it in a controversial move the Trump administration to hold a nearly completed offshore wind project.

Good Morning, Commissioner D****.

A lot going on for you.

Good morning.

Great to be with you.

Thank you so much for coming by.

Amid all this as the federal government moves away from Green energy initiatives.

I want to know if you folks have any questions about Connecticut's commitment.

Join our conversation.

Call U.S.

8, 8, 8, 720-9677, 8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, Last month.

Commissioner, the federal government issued this stop work order.

I mostly completed offshore wind project called Revolution.

When I believe 80%.

> > Completed your office condemned the stop work order saying it will cost ratepayers a lot of money.

How much and how will it hit us?

And those highly scrutinized to energy bills.

> > Well, this is this is bad news all around for the reliability of the New England electric grid for the predictability of investment in all types of energy forms in our in our region as well.

for repairs.

When do who are struggling with high high costs.

This is a really unprecedented move by the Trump administration.

It's one thing to, you know, raised questions as you're going through a permitting process and so on.

But this is a project that we signed contracts with back in 2018, 2019 and at competitive prices.

Then the Supreme pandemic prices for offshore wind, which compete favorably.

Now with the cost of no new generation of all types, which is much higher than it was back.

Then and the project is employing 1200 people and Connecticut.

Right?

And Rhode Island, including 200 a write-down at that.

The state pier is a project that's 80% complete.

It went through a nineyear permitting process and and it's ready to deliver power to the grid next year.

And so this intervention from the Trump administration is really devastating.

And and my phone's been ringing from, you know, power generator of folks to build power plants and of all types who are concerned about the chilling effect this has on investment on the view can no longer count on being able to move forward.

A project that when you have all of your permits in hand, our calculation at deep is that and, you know, we don't have there other power that are this far along and ready to us walk in and substitute for the Revolution.

When project next year.

The I New England, which operates our regional electric grid is counting on this 704 megawatt power plant to supply power by the end of next year.

And if it if this stop work order isn't reversed, we could see higher prices on the order of approximately 500 million dollars.

That will impact not just Connecticut repairs, but businesses and residents all across the New England region because we're going to be a little short of a generation supply, which means, you know, laws of supply demand prices will go up.

A lot of > > Particularly in this job people.

that you're in right now care about bothering you about energy prices, I would imagine are asking you about that and in your past life as and being involved with para.

So what does 500 million dollars mean in terms of a bill?

Is this mean that the that it could have been a massive savings for folks.

> > Yes, so this is a couple of dollars per month, roughly that we would expect will come on to the average residential.

And, you know, generation charge.

And if this project the experience in a time where you're talking, we're work.

State lawmakers are usually talking.

> > About trying to find money, maybe even bonding money to to try to save money on bills and you had an opportunity here.

It sounds like he did so much exactly.

This is taking us in the wrong direction in.

> > And frankly, you know, the Trump administration, President Trump is called for making our grid more reliable and bring costs down for consumers.

That certainly and a priority that Governor Lamont and our legislature, you know, both sides of the aisle have been prioritizing.

This is just an action that's taking us in the wrong direction and playing the source of, you know, resource politics here.

So late in the game for it with a project that's so far along in frankly, for men and women who are, you know, sitting idle right now wanting to get this project back on track.

You are worried about what this could mean for their jobs.

These are this is domestic energy source being constructed just 15 nautical miles off the shore of Rhode Island.

The at this is that the type of and, you know, investment in American energy that that that we need because this is the demand for electricity is going up.

We have a thriving economy, a growing manufacturing sector and more demand for energy is critical, too.

National security and economic growth and so that means we have to have predictability for folks investing these projects that yet that that when they make those investments, they'll be able to get their projects turning on and health and helping support the grant.

> > I read in Politico that the Federal Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, that's the arm of the Trump administration that you are dealing with issued a stop work order citing national security concerns.

What do you know if anything about whether or not as this project was being constructed and actually going through.

> > Wow.

> > If national energy or excuse me, national security was anything they were concerned with or if it popped up or if that's something it's just being used against you at this point, what do you know it?

There's really not a lot of detail that the Trump administration provided about that concern.

What I do know is the Department of Defense.

> > Was part of the consultation process in the development and the permitting process for this project.

Again.

you know, we know that there's a lot focus on helping to make permitting processes more efficient, more streamlined.

And this is a multi-year process of this project.

Went through and we know that this is this.

Is one of many topics that was considered an and permits were issued.

And and so to see this issue now being raised as a concern, you know, it just feels like a pretense.

There's not a lot of detail the about this night.

Worry about what this means for, you know, national security defense.

If we have, we have a lot of defense industry you know, facilities in and add manufactures here in Connecticut, in the region.

We need to have a grid that's reliable to support.

You know, those installations to in the cancellation of this project.

I worry about the negative and the impact that could have come to some of those types of facilities.

And frankly, all residents and repairs and and businesses in the region.

That's why you know it.

And just days after the stop work order was issued, we sought in Preston in a statement from our great operator, you know, raising concerns about the negative impact on grid reliability of the project is halted.

We have the challenge here in New England that we've been aware of for a long time, which is you know, we space reliability risks, especially in the winter time.

If you have one of those multi-day cold snaps at New England is famous for those are the periods when you know, the grid operator gets nervous that some of our power plants, particularly gas power plants may not be able to get access to the field they need to to ride reliably during this period and resources like offshore wind actually perform really well during those cold winter period.

So the so we've been counting on this resource to actually help improve the reliability of the grid, especially those times.

What is most vulnerable?

I just want to say that this issue may be litigated at some point.

Obviously, because Attorney General William Tong.

> > And and his group has sue the Trump administration.

Trump excuse me Tonga saying the Trumps.

And Ministrations accident actions were blatantly illegal was a quote that he used.

So we talked about the prospect of this project being shut down and what that could mean for the future.

Do you have to wait for the Trump administration to sort of?

Finish out their term?

> > Or > > is this really a a sort of death blow?

2, the to the sector here and trying to get these kind of projects off the ground or is it just going to take some time?

> > Well, a project like this, particularly one that's so close to completion.

I mean, there's there's serious harms if this stop work, order, it's not rescinded.

And I appreciate, you know, the work that the attorney general has been doing, working Orsted the developer, the attorney general of Rhode Island.

Certainly we've been part raising these concerns and and hoping that, you know, the courts will and we'll be able to intervene here.

but in the meantime, Governor Lamont, you know, has been reaching out to the Trump administration and 2 in the 2 did extend that there could be some avenue for cooperation that would persuade the administration to choose different path here.

Of course, there's a desire to do that, but we're now in the 4th week of this situation and we haven't seen any movement yet.

So but but that, you know, we need to have an urgent reconsideration of this action in order to ensure that this project could continue to move forward and that's again, that's its.

This is a problem.

Not just for offshore wind and the after wind industry, but it's a problem for be able to support, you know, predictable investment in the all types of energy supply that we need to support a growing economy.

If this is the new normal in the new president that set the the project, you know, with the resource type that may be the president is not a fan of can, you know, be subjected to these kinds of interventions.

So late in the game that could happen to any kind of project, you know, and that's what I'm hearing from a lot of developers.

This is the gist that risk that they're really worried about that.

This is now casting over over the energy sector at a time that we can't afford things are bleak on the inner environmental sustainability front right now in recent years.

> > Things were looking up in terms of alternative sources of power generation.

As we're talking about now with wind power and also in terms of supporting folks, particularly in an era where you're trying to produce these alternatives.

Sources of power generation and you have energy costs going up, especially when you're you're trying to interact with the fossil fuel market as well.

And you had help for folks in terms of low income, a home energy assistance and the state has a program as well.

But the federal program were just funding stand.

There is particularly helpful during COVID and people needing help with with with money in a in a very tough economic situation.

Sure he had.

again, there's that we've seen a lot of concerning steps coming out of Congress and the Trump administration in the last few months.

> > Not does as far as setbacks for the green economy.

But just setbacks for an affordable economy.

And in general, the Inflation Reduction Act, which is a a really important piece of federal legislation and vans to 2 years ago that would provided support son of range of different ways to help ordinary.

Reza, you know, residents and businesses on the able to take advantage of federal grants and tax credits and other benefits to help lower their energy bills.

That's really what was behind this program to help people better afford things like putting in more insulation, weatherizing their getting access to electric vehicles that can have a littler total cost of ownership.

The a conventional gas-powered vehicle and helping to make renewable energy solar on your roof.

You know, all of these types of things, more affordable on the expectation that those kinds of investments are.

So the most powerful tools that people have to take control of their energy bills and bring their costs down and unfortunately, we've seen a lot of moves to try to cancel federal grants that we had been awarded here in Connecticut, the Solar for all program is one that's been reported on recently.

62 and a half million dollars that we you know, we're working to deploy to put solar help of folks to be able to access a lure to reduce their bills.

The federal tax credits.

We've seen it with the one big beautiful bill took one big, beautiful bite out of a lot of, you know, important assistance that has been around for many years to help make things like TV's and and even weatherization and HVAC upgrades.

you know, he ponce other types of cost saving equipment you know, really looking to rescind some of the federal support and tax credits for those programs.

So we have federal tax cuts for EVs which have been about $7500 are going to be expiring at the end of this month.

September 30th and then a whole range of other federal tax credits for building upgrades.

Hvac insulation, et cetera, will be expiring at the end of this year.

So it's I get a sound a little like a car salesman here, but it's never been a better time to to consider an electric vehicle EV even thinking about it.

> > You know, you've got about 2 weeks to get down to a dealership.

You don't have to you have to have a sign.

A executed right for the purchase of the vehicle by September.

30th.

you know, and so taking action now, if you thought about it, now is the time to do it.

And at the same time, another message, it's I really want people to hear is that we do have a lot of really popular and impactful state programs that support these types of investments.

Not at the same level of that Uncle Sam has been able to us to provide.

But these are still very popular and important programs.

We have the cheaper rebate that's funded at the state level provide for it.

incentives for both new and used electric vehicles.

That program continues to be really popular.

And and to well continue beyond the federal tax credits.

And then we have our energy efficiency programs here in the state to and and said those are important complement to some of the tax credits on home energy upgrades.

Let me jump in now just to invite folks that really got a couple minutes left to call U.S.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, If you want to talk to Katie D****, the commissioner.

> > Of the Connecticut to department of it and I can't speak today.

Energy and Environmental protection here in Connecticut, 8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, So we have the programs but also a direct folks before we talk a little bit more about the programs to the website, the ctd website because there is a handy little chart there that helps people understand what's available to them.

And when the credits are expiring.

> > Yes, please go and check that out.

And another Web site that encourage people to take a look at is energize CT dot com.

This is the one-stop shop location where you can sign up for all of the different energy efficiency services that are available to you.

right now, if you're thinking about making upgrades to your home, it's the fall.

This is the time people start to think about winter coming in ways to reduce their energy bills, make their home more comfortable.

And now's a great time to get in a home energy audit and that for a limited time, you can get that home.

Energy audit with $0.

There's no copay and that's an offering that we're doing for a limited time and that will get you roughly $1000 worth of separate services.

The including air sealing cocking, you know, plan a plus an assessment of your home and customized recommendations for the tape said since that would make the most sense and give you the biggest bang for the buck in your home.

And that will also give you a great sense of what federal tax credits and state incentives and low interest or no interest financing, you could be eligible for to help bring those projects to life and again, this is the most impactful thing you can do to bring down your energy costs.

I want to buy heat pumps or get someone of the house to tell me how I can make it greener and meaner after.

> > December, what's going to happen?

What do I do?

Right?

So that's the first stop is energized.

It could get that home energy audit.

> > You'll have a Connecticut professional come out and assess your home to make some of those upgrades right on the spot.

and then help you understand whats the best thing for you to do next.

And that will include state incentives that will continue beyond the end of the year when when this federal tax credits will be expiring.

So that's where I got to get to and will finish up here.

But obviously, when you lose federal investment, that means that you're going to hopefully rely on some state incentives and some state investment as well.

> > So what are you gonna need here?

Especially if you're talking about it, I'm sure you're concerned about the federal tax credits.

There's a solar for all program that's potentially going away.

So what's the ask of state lawmakers will?

How can they step in here to help?

> > Well, continuing to protect and preserve that programs that we have in place at the state level has never been more important because folks are going to be increasingly depending on those programs going forward.

But, you know, certainly without the federal the federal tax credits have made some of the incentives, more generous.

But that doesn't mean that they're not cost The don't continue.

You know, that they're going to continue to be.

you know, cost effective investment for folks to make going forward, especially if we see interruptions in our, you know, pro projects like the Revolution Wind project.

That's going to put a lot of pressure on electric.

Those going forward.

If we are able to build the forms of energy supply that we need to meet our needs.

So we're going to want to double down on, you know, and ways to support residents and businesses to help reduce their energy use the cost of energy efficiency is roughly half the cost of invest.

Staying in new forms of generation supply and and all repairs benefit.

When we invest in energy efficiency.

Because you making reducing your energy use in your home.

Frankie means that the rest of us, you know, don't have to pay the cost of that next megawatt of power generation, you know, being added to the grid.

So there's there's benefits for all of us can continue to make these investments.

> > I'm going to squeeze in one question here because it comes in from our friend, James well here.

And I think its something you could speak to want to make sure we get to ask you question before you take off and I appreciate you doing this of another big concern that people have is that you're not going to have the same kind of support from FEMA potentially in the future, something like that or I don't know any any kind of support from the federal government because Connecticut tends to vote a certain way.

So there's concern that the Trump administration may not support Connecticut's so is flooding mitigation and prevention, something that you'll be focusing on here or but it's that kind of keep up the pressure.

Yes.

> > And we're seeing, of course, the Trump administration has taken some unprecedented news with respect to cutbacks at FEMA, which is really concerning, not just for blue states but for red states.

And we've seen disaster assistance and very popular program called the building Resilient and investment in program also be pulled back.

This investment in what we call hazard mitigation, making proactive investments to help communities better protect themselves from the impacts of extreme weather events.

you know, every dollar invested in those kinds of proactive infrastructure, kinds of projects, seeds.

6, $7.13 You know, in terms of lower costs when that when disaster strikes and so this is just makes all the sense in the world to be investing in these types of projects.

Deep has been able to support a lot of planning and project development for resilience through a deep climate resilience fund that we launched a few years ago.

We're going to be coming out with a new grant round.

We encourage municipalities to sign up and bring their projects forward.

We see here in Connecticut working on projects to help reduce flooding to prepare for things like extreme heat, even wildfires.

And if you remember last fall, we had a really impressive wildfire season.

We know because we have been investing in and listening to the science.

We know that we are facing these risk and what those risks look like and and being able to and, you know, take that information.

And and then translate that into the kinds of actual projects that, you know, cities and towns can build with this kind of state assistance can make all the difference to help protect residents of businesses from those kinds of that disasters that we can't say exactly when they're going to happen.

But we know the kinds of the disasters that we need to be prepared for.

It credit to the legislature.

We've had a lot of support for providing bond funding for this important program at the state level because we know this.

This can and this can happen here and we want to be prepared.

> > James and I very much appreciate you answering that question.

This is Katie D****, the commissioner of the Department of Energy and Environmental Protection in Connecticut.

Thank you so much for coming on the Wheelhouse this morning.

Thanks so much for having me.

Thank you for taking the time with us.

Coming up, we're going to talk about what we just heard from the commissioner and we'll talk a little bit more about the green economy and what it looks like in 2025.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, the number to call listening to the Wheelhouse Connecticut Public.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ > > Support comes from Springfield, museums, in honor of Hispanic Heritage Month, Springfield, museums presents legacies of surrealism and markets foodways and the essence of place to exhibitions from the moose and to take the Ponce, Puerto Rico, Springfield, museums, dot org.

> > It's all-too-human tendency to humanize non-human where I am.

it doesn't just happen to Desert Island.

Castaways devoid of human contact.

We name our cars and leave our pets have complex center lines.

> > Why we can't confirm or FOX.

That's next.

Time on ♪ > > coming up this morning at 11.

> > Connecticut Public Radio's news reports are made possible by the New Britain Museum of American Art and H S s orthopedics with Stanford health.

Listen for news reports on MORNING Edition and all things considered.

> > If you're someone who loves staying well informed, check out our newsletter offerings.

Get the news you need to rated and delivered right to your inbox from national and local news stories to the best Public Media Programs podcast and shows we've got you covered.

Go to CT Public Dot Org.

Slash newsletter today.

Support for Connecticut Public Radio.

comes from our members.

> > And from the Warner Theater, presenting from Alvin Ailey American dance theater Friday, October 17th at 07:30PM, in Torrington learn more at Warner Theater Dot Org.

> > This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

Immediately after assuming power the Trump administration rolled back the Biden era, Inflation Reduction Act, including some incentives for green energy.

In an executive order.

Trump said the Biden era policy limited the generation of reliable and affordable electricity, reduce job creation and inflicted high energy costs upon our citizens.

That's what Trump said.

Joining me now to talk about the state of federal incentives and what we just heard from Deep Commissioner Katie D****.

It's one of my colleagues on your Panelo is a report for America Corps member covering environmental issues and climate change on it.

Thanks so much for coming on here.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you so much.

Also joining us is Chris Kris, he's the manager of sustainability advocacy for the consumer Oriented research, nonprofit Consumer Reports.

Thank you so much for logging on with us.

Chris.

Thanks for We hope folks will join the conversation today.

Give us a call.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, to date, 720-9677.

And you go first.

What did you hear from Commissioner D**** in response?

The federal government, salting of that revolution when project.

> > I mean, much of what I have heard before, which is, you know, this is bad news.

All around, not just for Connecticut, Rhode Island, but all of New England.

And, you know, she's a call this devastating.

And this is that resource politics.

And that is a really unprecedented move by the Trump administration.

> > And its interesting that you say that we were going through that Trump quote at the beginning of the section when he's talking about job creation using that as a reason to cancel out the inflation Reduction Act.

But then we see that some of the jobs created by that revolution when project are certainly in general it in in jeopardy.

We received a call our last segment, Steven from Colchester on.

He worries that he's watching a rollover of the Trump administration.

Yes, why we wouldn't be supporting the fight for clean energy in your reporting, are you seeing the state sort of changes tone in any way on initiatives like offshore wind following a stop work order > > I think the state is still very pro offshore wind.

The Department of Energy, Environmental Protection earlier this month described offshore wind as a winter powerhouse.

That's for wind blows the most during the winter when where people are using electricity.

I think the state is still very pro offer wind and clean energy.

It's just a question of how you take advantage of that during this current administration Commissioner D*** saying that the grid very vulnerable in the winter, particularly since we rely so much on natural > > really appreciate you bringing that up on.

You.

We talked about that tax incentives.

Did you hear anything new there?

> > I think it was.

It was very much the same.

You know, the commissioner saying that these credits expiring will make clean energy projects much more costly.

She talked about how loud the grants that were awarded.

Connecticut have been canceled.

That includes a solar for all grants.

That program was going to make solar panels more affordable for and medium income and low income residents.

And, you know, she also said if you want to take advantage of these federal tax credits now is definitely time to do so.

> > Chris, our other states similarly scrambling to get the word out about the incentive to Chris from Consumer Do you see a scramble happening with other states?

> > Yeah, absolutely.

You know that not only are unique facts, read it expiring at the end of this month, we have all of those home energy efficiency tax credits.

And we put those talked about actually efficiency is the best way for to grab the Dow at a time.

When are you know they're going out.

So really those tax credits for energy efficiency go through the end of the year.

really, if you're looking you know, improve the efficiency of your home right now is the time to do tax credits for more efficient more efficient for a fair and doors windows all that and staff can prepare ring the bells the PAC Predator.

now all through the end of the year.

So now we're taking on the organizations like our and stay fairly trying to get the word out that out of time.

> > The energy, a vehicle credits or to the electric vehicle credits that we've been talking about.

Is that hurting the EV market in the United States?

Chris?

> > Chris can hear bill right now.

It's really supercharging EV market sure.

I mean, I. Right now I. Yes.

Alright.

Now it's summer time in market in the U.S.

felt sorry for him as as people rushed out to get a new take advantage of these tax credits.

And but you know what happens after the end of this month?

kind of you what happens?

I think no, I think we'll see a slowdown and the markets safe for them to step And, you know, is their own tax credits out, soften the blow by a sign that the back-ups.

> > We have a bill from somewhere here in Connecticut asking about the federal tax credits.

I think what he's hinting at is how much you get back in terms of the current situation that you have.

I think it was 1500 here in Connecticut, Anya, but now it's going to be 500 because they're having to ration the credits.

You help me understand what the what the incentive is.

There.

> > Total 8.

So it was $1500.

That was the state incentive.

And that had to be rationed because the federal tax credits are expiring.

So many people want to take advantage of that federal tax credit and the state tax credit and combined those there's a 30% increase.

So the state had to ration it from 1500 down to $500.

The standard rebate right now, it's about $500.

It's going continue to be at that rate until the end of September August, September.

And then from there, whether or not it stays at the $500 level or goes back up, that remains to be seen.

So after September is there cheaper?

Is that the program?

I'm always trying to think about my acronyms as they're cheaper that people can take advantage of.

> > And bill might be getting to this, too.

So, yeah, $500 right now that you could access until the end the month.

You have to have the contract.

You have to be under contract with a new car by September.

30th to get that $500 in federal money.

And then after that, there's no more federal money.

But at least there might be cheaper.

cheaper is at $500 rebate and you take advantage of that.

Now you can take advantage of that after September whether or not will be still 500 after September has not been.

> > Officially announced > > and we're waiting to get Chris back on the phone that when we do, we'll ask him about the EV market outside of the United States.

But something I want to follow up with the right now.

We have the TV credits and there's also other items in their 2 deadlines to September one and then incentive that expire in December and help our understands and the help our listeners kind of understand what's available to them.

> > Yes, look if using, but there's basically only like today to to keep in mind.

So September 30th.

That is when the visa, the tax credits for EVs and plug-in hybrid expires that the only thing that is ending at the end of September.

That's up to $7500 for a new EV or hybrid.

And up to $4,000 for a used EV or hybrid.

It again.

That's the only thing that is expiring at the end of this month.

Everything else he comes rooftop solar panels home weatherization projects.

All of those are expiring at the end of this year, December 31st.

It's important to know that that's not just a purchase by take that as a purchase and install a bite date.

So if you're doing the rooftop solar panels, you need to buy them and have them ready to be installed, ready to be connected to the grid by December 31st.

Thank you so much for that.

The E V market, I wanted to get back into a little bit, inside the inside the United States.

Sounds like it's being supercharged by these.

> > By these rebates, what's happening outside of the United States?

Are people still producing electric cars and doing it at a pretty decent clip?

> > Yeah, absolutely.

Expected to make up about 25% of all.

It's all vehicle bailed out and and globally this year, you know, the growing rapidly.

As you know, 25 30 40% per year.

you are taking off worldwide as the technology keeps getting better and better and cheaper and cheaper.

> > Just lastly here before we finish here, this last question, I'll ask you guys in Connecticut after Donald Trump was elected president in 2024.

Governor Ned Lamont reacted by putting the state's future plans.

4, 0, carbon mission.

Only new vehicle sales by 2035.

On > > Are other states doing hold.

this, Chris?

Our state still trying to adopt California vehicle emission standards.

> > Yes, a of the California vehicle emission standards for our blocks by by the current administration.

So those are those are no longer enforceable.

But states are still looking for ways to accelerate green vehicle adoption within their states through policy.

And we expect to be, you know, continue to grow.

And in cleaner, more efficient vehicle sales and us over the next 10 years.

> > So appreciative to have you on Chris from Consumer Reports has done a great job, a fabulous job paying attention to that credits and the ability to try to strive for some kind of energy efficiency here in the future in the United States.

I appreciate you coming on, Chris.

> > Yeah, thanks for having > > And yeah, very, very much.

me.

A pleasure to have you debut on the Wheelhouse and thank you for helping me put this together in this conversation.

I appreciate it very much.

Thank you so much.

Meantime, pay attention on his work at CD, Public Dot Org, especially in these times.

We're talking about the increased attention to climate change.

After the break, we pivot from environmental issues to access to public records.

Freedom of information request will talk about that next with a couple of great journalist.

50 years of Fli in Connecticut after the break.

You're in the Wheelhouse.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ > > Support comes from live.

Well, learn, grow and thrive.

Your way fall semester to thrive.

Starts this month.

Classes available for people living with dementia and for those wanting to prevent it for details, visit live well, DOT org.

> > Congress has overhauled the federal student loan system.

Students could now have more access to private educational loans.

But education finance experts say they're not necessarily a better option.

Part of ones that exist now are not particularly working out well for folks to sell it for driving people to this market.

What does that actually look like for everyday foreigners?

> > The pros and cons of the private student loan industry.

That's on the next on point.

♪ > > Listen this morning at 10 in New England.

The weather is always changing.

Listen for forecast throughout the day from meteorologist guarantors Yanis support comes from Springfield, new zooms and Hancock Shaker Village.

> > Is it time to part with that old car?

Here's an idea.

Donated to support the New Zoo It's fast safe and will even come pick it up.

It's a simple, smart solution to that spare car go to CT public Dot org, slash car to get started and thank you support comes from Premier concert and manic present bringing Herb Alpert and the Tijuana brass in their final Connecticut appearance to College Street Music Hall in New Haven on March.

26th tickets at College Street Music Hall dot com.

> > This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This year Marks 50 years since the state of Connecticut's Connecticut, freedom of information law was enacted guaranteeing access to public records.

But some of our best reporters aren't exactly reveling in the sunshine on this 50th anniversary.

They say regarding the release of certain records, a slow process is keeping the public in the dark.

Dean is Connecticut Public's, Investigative Reporter.

Good Morning and editor actually Good Morning, Jen, thank you for being Good morning.

Thank you so much for inviting us on.

> > Of course.

> > Jacqueline Rabe, Thomas, Connecticut, CT insiders, investigative reporter and a prolific filer of Freedom of Information Act requests.

Good morning, Jack.

E thanks for having me.

Thank you so much for coming us.

Good conversation.

If you folks are worried about your effort to be informed, it's called really quickly.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, or at least maybe a pep talk because it, sir, I know you don't feel bad for us reporters, but it's not exactly an easy time to be working right now.

So just give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, If you can.

Jackie, a quick overview of Connecticut's fli process.

You try to get access to a record you think is public an agency or official has to respond a certain amount of time right happens from there.

> > Yes, so in theory, there are certain records that have to be turned over in a timely fashion in practice there are many hurdles to cross before you can get records from from any public agencies in Connecticut.

And those turtles can include.

Sure things like not having enough staffing at an agency to process requests.

You know, the Department of Corrections has one attorney handling records requests also same records request for those who are filing lawsuits against the Department of Corrections.

So the media tends to another request tend to get to the back of the line.

And, you know, just sometimes there is maybe a resistance to provide records that might make the agency not look so great.

So.

> > We see proposals every now and then Jim in the state legislature, reporters say impact the public's right to access public records.

One example from this year that you spotlighted was a bill to keep secret pending complaints against police officers.

It didn't pass.

And while proposals to keep some information private, don't always pass.

Some changes have gone through in recent years, which ones?

> > Yeah.

So the way to think about this is I had the good fortune of talked many years ago as a fresher faced reporter from a guy named Pete White.

So who is at the Miami Herald's and he was one of the kind of for fathers of our our sunshine laws around the country and what he said to all of us in the room was these open government laws are a constant tug of war.

So it's not a one and done thing where you have the laws on the books and then everyone can get the records they need to do their job.

You always have to be going to be pushing to make sure that agencies are following along at the same time, their efforts every year in the legislature to kind of a road what we have in place because reporters don't make the laws, reporters don't make the laws we do.

This is one thing that we do have a key for us.

The freedom of the press in the First Amendment.

But you know, in Connecticut in the last few years, in particular, there haven't been any huge overarching changes.

But there have been all kinds of proposals around, you know, making people's public employees addresses secret, trying to kind of make some of the research that happens at UConn protected from disclosure for certain reasons.

A lot of that stuff has not gained traction last year.

One bill that did make it almost across the finish line would have made it so that if someone files a complaint against a police officer, a corrections official, the agency investigating that complaint can keep it secret until the point at which they did in their judgment, determined it's been fully adjudicated.

The idea was to kind of protect the reputations of those who haven't done anything wrong.

But the Freedom of Information Commission here in Connecticut, you know, really had concern about that measure because they argue it really could have opened up this giant loophole.

You can drive a truck through where people could hold on to those records and say, you know, indefinitely, well, we're still looking into it or something along those lines.

So really what made it difficult not only to judge what happened in that particular incident.

But how, you know, the efficacy of the agency that is charged with accountability for that system.

> > That didn't pass.

But there is a didn't pass, right?

Did not know headed through the Senate but didn't get a final vote.

But still one thing that's kind of a hurdle in your way for both of you is that now there's some kind of situation where if you file a request with an agency kind have to stick with that agency right?

You can't necessarily bump around.

If you see that the other agency.

Let's say if it's we just had deep in here, let's say maybe deep as the records.

But euphoria, the a different department, you can't necessarily then go back to deepen.

Ask for the records right?

Jackie really brought this to yet.

> > Yeah.

So.

> > Hearst Connecticut, we've filed a complaint against the Office of Policy Management, the governor's budget policy office asking for some records related 2, how folks were being treated by prosecutors in the judicial branch of the system on bunch of data that they were receiving and they fought the release of the that information they the fy see ruled in Hurst favor.

but the legislature tucked in a, you know, 500 page budget.

I forget how many patients the budget was that year.

But you know, this omnibus budget bill that you have to go to the original.

Agency for the records.

You can't go to you know, if someone sends information to deep you have to go to this, sending agency think they're not all winners and reporting, right?

You're not always going inspire people to put HEPA filters in school like you guys have here at tab.

When you worked with us, Jackie.

> > Or some of the other great things that you've done here in the state.

Sometimes they may.

It looks like a pass a law that goes the other way.

And there's an effort like a mission that supposed to help out reporters or at least to mediate requests that Dragon reporters can get a hearing.

But first of all, does that always happen?

And then what's kind of the status of the Fy Commission in Connecticut now?

> > There is a logjam.

It takes a very long time to get a hearing and to get a decision in your favor if they rule in your favor and some public agencies, they feel like know it.

So, you know, I have a complaint going back 6 months that I'm still waiting for a hearing on.

I could go on and on about how many months they've been waiting for different hearings.

> > Before that, would use normally supposed to get that hearing in the case.

Just help me out with that process.

So like is there a time frame that you're supposed to get the hearing or when you file requests, you're supposed to get it by a certain time.

Is there some kind of 30 day window?

> > So there's a state law that says complaints have to be decided in a decision has to be made within one year and so, you know, there's some controversy when that was passed several years ago because there was concern that cases would just go away because you know, they hit the one-year mark.

What has happened, however, is that cases are getting close to the one-year mark into this sort of get to the top of the deck.

If you look at the FOMC Commission meeting for next week, several of the cases that are pending to be heard next week are approaching that one year deadline and are about to get decisions.

And and so what does that mean that means that people had to wait almost one year to get a decision that they were in the right that a meeting was closed when it should have been that a public agency withheld records that show that have been and that is the state of our ally.

But the point is that you need to get those stories out quick so the public could hear about it.

And you may have to wait a year if somebody says.

> > Now, Dyson, a records request.

> > That is accurate.

Yes, something speed up requests.

If there's an indictment, you know, some agencies will want to get all the records out the door as quickly as possible.

So, you know, to point to there being innocent or, you know, media crisis 101 is to sort of take all questions until there's no questions left.

And so, you know, just a flood of record starts to come out the door on that or if it's a priority legislation of the administration are legislators records surrounding that will start to come out a little bit faster.

But oftentimes the no investigative reporters like us, you know, it's not stuff that people are wanting to get out the door quickly.

So there is some resistance.

I will say that.

I think the folks who handle these FOIA requests, they they're doing the best they can.

And, you know, it's often what I found when I sort of trying to negotiate the release of records to avoid this one year.

Wait or nearly one year.

Wait, is that they're just, you know, understaffed fli offices are understaffed in our state.

> > Jim, you have an experience.

A similar experience issues with state agencies, fy commissions trying to get hearings, trying to get documents.

What kind of experience are you going through?

> > I am triggered by a lot of this.

A lot of it resonates with me.

I think you know what Jackie pointed out is definitely something that we have come to experience to, which is that a lot of, you know, I don't know a lot of the writer of the many agencies I think have learned that they really don't need to take these request seriously until the point at which they are.

They are pulled dragged into a hearing before the freedom of Information Commission, which access this kind of referee here in Connecticut.

It something very special that we have.

Not a lot of states have the commission's with great that it's here at the same time it is kind of one of the only points of real pressure for agencies to release records if they are stringing you along, not giving you what you need.

And so the delay itself becomes a tool to kind of blunt any accountability that and agency my face.

If those records were to come out.

I think that some have learned that the delay can be a tactic that can prevent the public from learning about.

The thing is you're trying to bring to light and that really reduces the ability of citizens to make informed decisions about who's in charge, how government functions.

So really kind of subverts the whole point of what we're trying to do like voting folks or like if you should probably go to that council meeting this week because it's going to be a big vote or something like that.

This is the kind of stuff the reporters have to do and that trumpeting.

> > And beating the drum for reporters here.

But like if you want to feel informed, if you all want to see an issue happened and then react to it afterwards and say, hey, maybe I should have participated in that.

That's the job of these reporters to kind of keep you informed 50 years in this lot here, Jackie, as I mentioned before, your prolific FOIA filer.

And I say that because I admire you for it.

His state getting better or worse at this.

And in what ways is it impacting your work?

> > I would say that there are a lot of really great actors in this state who really, you know, have the spirit of open records and want to get information out the door.

You know, I I got a record response back last week.

That was like 2 minutes to get back records.

And I was like, you know, like good for this agency.

This is amazing rate and I can't tell you how often that happens that people are acting in good faith it's just really frustrating when it if people when people are still acting in good faith, it's just, you know, some requests are are pretty large or complicated or something.

Maybe someone doesn't want to release him a public.

And so there are these delays and you really don't have that mechanism for those examples.

But I would say the state of a full life for sort of the spirit of fli and following.

And I I would say that a lot of state agencies and local public agencies really do see the benefit of getting information to the media.

> > Jim, I asked Jackie about this.

We can only do this in about a minute.

You're a diehard reporter.

I think you might get FL light and a new one day.

Help me understand why you care so much about this freedom of information request.

And why the people should care about it, too.

> > So I don't have any tattoos, but I've often thought a very I don't either.

The issue is going see the issue is if you get a tattoo, it's going to be something that you, you know, in like 10 or 20 years, you're still going to think is cool is going to think you're gonna think it's important.

What else in my life and I said about except freedom of information, open government.

These laws are record not to not to get on my soapbox, but it's the First Amendment.

Congress can't make any water bridge, the freedom of the press.

And that's because it's so central to how we run a democracy I just want to encourage folks to realize why is not just for journalists, its for citizens to anyone can use this law.

And the more that you go ahead and file requests, the easier it's going to be for the next person who comes after you.

You can for why it's E T DOT Gov.

The Freedom of Information Commission is there to help you so exercise your rights and this was going to be more effective for all of us in the future.

> > Hey, who says that the lame stream media doesn't care about you, folks.

Listen to that.

Jackie, Jim do and I guess they're not a part of that live stream media.

Jackie Rain, Thomas, you can see her work in CT Insider dot com.

And Dean or investigative editor here at CD, Public Dot Org.

I'm out of time here.

I want to thank Chloe win for producing the show.

Patrick Scahill for editing it.

Dylan race for his great work as technical producer, Tess terrible Meagan Fitzgerald, our visual Seamer operation seen.

Thank you so much.

This is the Wheelhouse on Frankie Graziano.

See you next week.