AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: In his# first meetin.. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth charts# major American policy shifts on Ukraine.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. Defense Secretary: The# United States does not believe that NATO## membership for Ukraine is a realistic# outcome of a negotiated settlement.

AMNA NAWAZ: Lawmakers spotlight# the so-called war on waste as## Elon Musk's influence in the White House grows.

GEOFF BENNETT: And the Trump administration# guts key research efforts within the Education## Department, an agency the president# has pledged to eliminate altogether.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

In a major shift of U.S. foreign policy,# President Trump announced today that.. and Russian President Vladimir Putin have# agreed to immediately start talks to end## the war in Ukraine.

The president also said# he believed the two leaders would meet soon.

AMNA NAWAZ: Earlier in the day, Defense Secretary# Pete Hegseth outlined further policy changes,## saying Kyiv should not expect to# recapture all territory occupied## by Russia and that its bid for NATO# membership is unrealistic at this time.

Nick Schifrin begins our coverage.

NICK SCHIFRIN: At the headquarters of what U.S.# officials consider the world's most important## alliance, today, Secretary of Defense# Pete Hegseth put the alliance on notice.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. Defense Secretary:# We're also here today to directly## and unambiguously express that stark# strategic realities prevent the United## States of America from being primarily# focused on the security of Europe.

NICK SCHIFRIN: For decades, the U.S. has# deployed tens of thousands of troops to## Europe to help guarantee decades-old# U.S. policy that Europe be integrated,## free and secure.

But Beijing has launched the# fastest military modernization in history.

And## Hegseth and the Trump administration# prioritize securing U.S. borders.

PETE HEGSETH: As the United States# prioritizes its attention to these threats,## European allies must lead from the# front.

Together, we can establish a## division of labor that maximizes our comparative# advantages in Europe and Pacific respectively.

NICK SCHIFRIN: On Ukraine, the Biden and first# Trump administrations always said publicly,## Ukraine deserved all its territory# taken by Russia, including Crimea,## invaded by Russian soldiers and annexed in 2014.

Today, Russia controls just under# 20 percent of Ukrainian territory,## land that Hegseth said today# was impossible to restore.

PETE HEGSETH: We want, like you, a sovereign# and prosperous Ukraine.

But we must start## by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's# pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective.## Chasing this illusionary goal will only# prolong the war and cause more suffering.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Hegseth acknowledged that# Ukraine will need long-term security guarantees,## but said they would not be provided by NATO.

PETE HEGSETH: The United States does# not believe that NATO membership for## Ukraine is a realistic outcome of# a negotiated settlement.

Instead,## any security guarantee must be backed by# capable European and non-European troops.## If these troops are deployed as peacekeepers to# Ukraine at any point, they should be deployed## as part of a non-NATO mission, and they# should not be covered under Article 5.

NICK SCHIFRIN: To kick-start negotiations today,## President Trump first called# Russia's President Vladimir Putin.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: We# had a great call, and it lasted for a long time,## over an hour, this morning.

I also had with# President Zelenskyy a very good call after## that.

And I think we're on the way to getting# peace.

I think President Putin wants peace,## and President Zelenskyy wants# peace, and I want peace.

They have been saying that for a long time, that# Ukraine cannot go into NATO.

And I'm OK with that.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In response, Zelenskyy said# he was putting his eggs in Trump's basket.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President (through# translator): We believe that America's strength is## sufficient to pressure Russia and Putin into peace# together with us, together with ..

QUESTION: Do you view Ukraine as an# equal member of this peace process?

DONALD TRUMP: It's an interesting# question.

I think they have to make peace.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov# said the talks would extend beyond Ukraine.

DMITRY PESKOV, Spokesman for Vladimir Putin# (through translator): President Trump spoke in## favor of stopping hostilities as soon as possible# and resolving the problem by peaceful means.. President Putin, for his part, mentioned the need# to eliminate the root causes of the conflict.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And as that# conflict proceeds, today,## the U.S. reduced what Ukraine can hope to# expect as negotiations to end the war begin.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

AMNA NAWAZ: For perspective on# all this now, we get two views.

Evelyn Farkas is the executive director of the# McCain Institute at Arizona State University.## During the Obama administration, she served# as deputy assistant secretary of defense for## Eurasia.

And John Mearsheimer is# a political science professor at## the University of Chicago.

He's written# extensively about U.S. national security.

Welcome to you both and thanks for joining us.

Evelyn, start us off here.

I just want# to get your reaction to the secretary of## defense's remarks, particularly# this reversal of U.S. policy,## saying the U.S. does not believe that# NATO membership for Ukraine is realistic## or a return to the pre-2014 borders.

What do# you make of that and who does that benefit?

EVELYN FARKAS, Former Defense Department# Official: Yes, I mean, first of all, Amna,## it's tactically not really a move that helps# the president in terms of achieving his overall## objective, which is peace in Ukraine, because by# telegraphing that our position is now closer to## the Russian position, it appears, we# are reducing our leverage on Russia.

And, at the end of the day, everyone# knows that, if we want this war to end,## the one person who can end the war overnight# is Vladimir Putin.

The Ukrainians don't want## to fight, but they have to fight because# they're fighting for their sovereignty.

And## they won't accept any kind of trade of their# territory without a firm security guarantee.

And a security guarantee without# the United States involved will## not stop Vladimir Putin.

That's the reality.

AMNA NAWAZ: John, what do you make of that?

JOHN MEARSHEIMER, University of Chicago:# Well, I think it's quite remarkable what## the secretary of defense said today.

He# is basically saying that he accepts the## Russians' two major conditions for# moving toward a peace settlement.

The Russians have said that, before serious# negotiations can even begin, the West and## Ukraine have to accept the fact that Ukraine# will not be a NATO, that it will be a genuinely## neutral country.

And, number two, the West# has to accept the fact that Russia has## annexed the four oblasts in the east that# it now in large part controls and Crimea.

And the secretary of defense basically said# that Ukraine is not going to be a NATO,## the United States is not going to give Ukraine## a security guarantee.

That sounds like a# neutral Ukraine to me.

And, furthermore,## although he didn't specify what territory the# Russians can keep, he sounded like he was very## close to saying they can keep those four# oblasts that they have annexed and Crimea.

So I think this is an amazing statement# and it's almost complete reversal of what## the Biden administration was doing in Ukraine.

AMNA NAWAZ: Evelyn, we also heard from the# secretary of defense that Europeans will now## need to provide the security guarantees# for Ukraine, not the U.S. and not NATO.

And you heard there he also said# that if Europeans troops are to act,## they're going to be acting on their# own without the Article 5 protection,## meaning an attack on one is an attack on# all.

What does that mean in practical terms## on the ground in Ukraine and also# for the NATO alliance more broadly?

EVELYN FARKAS: Yes.

Yes, I mean, Amna, first# of all, everybody agrees the Europeans need## to do more in terms of providing for their# own defense and the defense of the continent.

But let's not be naive.

Vladimir Putin is# not afraid of the Europeans without the## United States backing up the Europeans,# which is to say, he's afraid of NATO,## and he will not make another move on# Ukraine if Ukraine is a NATO.

However,## if Ukraine is not a NATO, meaning --# and that there's a security guarantee## just from the Europeans, that is not going# to be sufficient to stop Vladimir Putin.

Let's remember Vladimir Putin has an# imperialist agenda.

He wants to take## Ukraine.

He's not going to stop there.# He's going to go for Moldova.

He's going## to go for Georgia.

He's going to# go for the former NATO states,## the Baltic states.

And guess who's watching# all this?

His partner.

They're closely allied.

There's no way to split the China-Russia threats# from one another.

China is watching.

China will## make a move on Taiwan and China will not stop# there.

China has disputed territories with Japan,## the Philippines.

We have alliances with those# countries.

I can go on.

You don't have time.

But the reality is that it's# very dangerous if we leave## the security guarantee purely to the Europeans.

AMNA NAWAZ: John, does this further embolden# Putin?

And if you're a NATO ally listening to## these remarks, does this say to you that# the U.S. is no longer a reliable partner?

JOHN MEARSHEIMER: Well, I think with regard# to your first question, Putin has no interest## in conquering all of Ukraine, much less# conquering countries in Eastern Europe.

He has never said he had any interest# in conquering all of Ukraine,## much less recreating the Soviet Union# or anything like that.

Furthermore,## he simply doesn't have the capability to# do that.

You can see how much trouble he## has had just conquering the# Eastern one-fifth of Ukraine.

The idea that this is the Wehrmacht and# it's highly poised to overrun Europe is## not a serious argument.

He wants a big chunk# of territory in Eastern Europe, and he is in## all likelihood going to get that, in large# part because he's winning on the battlefield.

One of the reasons that Trump is now cutting# our losses is that Trump and his lieutenants## understand that we have lost on the battlefield.# Or, to put it in slightly different terms,## the Ukrainians have lost.

We have no# leverage anymore.

Trump is facing up## to reality.

So I don't think there's any# danger of Vladimir Putin finishing off## Eastern Ukraine and then moving into Western# Ukraine and then moving into Eastern Europe.

AMNA NAWAZ: Evelyn, I saw you shaking your head.# I will give you a brief moment to respond there.

EVELYN FARKAS: Well, Vladimir Putin has# telegraphed very clearly in speeches and## writings what his vision is.

He wants to# recreate the Soviet Union exactly.

He wants## to recreate the old Russian empire.# That is his agenda, make no mistake.

And he will not stop with Ukraine, and he will# not stop with some oblasts, some territories.

So## I think the danger will only heighten after he# gets his way, if he gets his way with Ukraine.

AMNA NAWAZ: John, we heard from President# Trump now that the negotiating teams have## now been selected, and he hopes that this# will help to bring an end to the war.

Do you## see those negotiations yielding success?# What do you think comes of those talks?

JOHN MEARSHEIMER: Well, these# are very tricky negotiations,## because he has to get the Ukrainians on# board as well.

It's not just the United## States.

He also has to pay attention to what# his European allies are interested in doing.

The United States is clearly the main# force driver here.

There's no question## about that.

But it's not just us alone.

So# it'll be somewhat difficult to wrap up some## sort of agreement from that perspective.# But furthermore, you want to understand## that Putin is interested in a# much broader security agreement.

He's not just interested in shutting down the# war in Ukraine.

He's fully aware that there are## a number of other serious flash points in Eastern# Europe.

I could name six potential flash points## that we should worry about and that Putin should# worry about.

And what he'd like to do is get some## sort of comprehensive security architecture for# Europe in general, and certainly for the Eastern## half of Europe, so that we don't go down this road# again and have a replay of the war in Ukraine.

AMNA NAWAZ: Evelyn, in a few seconds I have left,## do you think these peace talks, these# negotiations will yield success?

EVELYN FARKAS: Amna, if they do, it will take# some time.

We could get a quick cease-fire,## but I don't think we're going# to have a comprehensive peace## deal over the weekend at the# Munich Security Conference.

AMNA NAWAZ: Evelyn Farkas, John Mearsheimer,# thank you to you both.

Appreciate your time.

JOHN MEARSHEIMER: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT: A.. the latest on a multinational prisoner exchange.

U.S. officials say that Belarus released# three detainees from jail today,## including one American.

That's part of# a broader swap that saw the U.S. free## Russian cyber criminal Alexander Vinnik.# He was suspected of funneling billions## of dollars through his cryptocurrency# exchange and pleaded guilty last year to## a money laundering charge.

In return, Russia# released American schoolteacher Marc Fogel.

MARC FOGEL, Released From Russia Prison: I# feel like the luckiest man on earth right now.

GEOFF BENNETT: The 63-year-old Fogel joined# President Trump at the White House late last## night, holding a can of Iron City Beer and# draped in an American flag.

Mr. Trump said## the exchange could be an important# part in ending the war in Ukraine.

A federal judge has cleared the way for# President Trump's plan to shrink the## federal work force through a deferred# resignation plan.

U.S. District Judge## George O'Toole Jr. in Boston found a group# of labor unions did not have legal standing## in calling the program illegal.

Eligible# workers had initially faced a deadline## last week to accept the offer commonly# referred to as a buyout.

Under the plan,## they would be allowed to leave their jobs with# the promise of pay through the end of September.

Eight government watchdogs are suing President# Trump for abruptly firing them last month.

The## federal lawsuit argues the inspectors general,# who all served during Mr. Trump's first term,## should get their jobs back.

It# states -- quote -- "President## Trump's attempt to eliminate a crucial and# longstanding source of impartial nonpartisan## oversight of his administration# is contrary to the rule of law."

They further argue that Mr.# Trump was legally required## to give Congress 30 days' notice beforehand.

In Washington, D.C., the newly installed# Board of Trustees at the Kennedy Center## voted today to make President Trump its# chairman.

It comes days after Mr. Trump## announced plans to overhaul the institution# and after he replaced the board with his## own appointees.

The board also voted# to fire the institution's president,## Deborah Rutter.

She had initially# planned to leave at the end of the year.

Former Acting Director of National# Intelligence Richard Grenell will## now be the interim president.

President# Trump has cited the center's hosting## drag performances as a reason for# wanting to reshape its programming.

The Trump administration is scrapping a# Biden policy that aimed to regulate name,## image, and likeness payments to college# athletes under Title IX rules.

The guidance## required that universities treat those# funds the same as athletic scholarships,## and that would have meant paying out the# money proportionately to male and female## athletes.

A Trump official called# that guidance overly burdensome.

More winter weather hit the Central U.S. today# from Oklahoma to the Great Lakes.

Further east,## they're digging out from a separate# storm that cut its way from Kentucky## to the nation's capital.

Clouds were out in# Virginia today as much of the mid-Atlantic## was blanketed in white.

At one point, nearly# 200,000 customers were without power there.

Meantime, in California, they're bracing for an# atmospheric river that will bring heavy rain.## Forecasters say the flash flood risk is especially# high for burned-out areas around Los Angeles.

Federal health agencies are restoring Web# sites and data sets that had been forced## offline due to a presidential order.

That# comes after a judge in Washington, D.C.,## ordered the content returned, saying their# loss threatened the work of doctors and public## health at large.

The scrubbed material# included information HIV monitoring,## contraception, and the enrollment of women# in clinical trials, among other things.

The site removals were apparently in# keeping with an executive order from## President Trump directing agencies to remove# any indication of alleged gender ideology.

Consumer prices ticked higher last month, rising# 3 percent when compared to the same time last## year.

That was due largely to higher costs for# groceries, gasoline, and rent.

Today's reading is## likely to give the U.S. Federal Reserve further# reason to hold off on cutting interest rates.

President Trump made cutting prices# a central part of his reelection bid,## promising to reduce prices on day one.

Instead,## economists say his proposed tariffs could# drive prices higher, even if temporarily.

Fed Chair Jerome Powell told a# congressional committee today## that the Fed will see how those# policies play out before acting.

JEROME POWELL, Federal Reserve Chairman:# We will then try to make an intelligent## judgment about the overall effect on the# economy of those and conduct our policy## accordingly.

But we're -- it's not our# role in any way to comment on the wisdom## of the policies that are enacted by# Congress or by the administration.

GEOFF BENNETT: Concerns about the pace of Fed# rate cuts sent a chill through Wall Street## today.

The Dow Jones industrial average ended# down more than 200 points by the close.

The## Nasdaq managed a tiny gain of just six points.

The# S&P 500 closed lower, slipping about 16 points.

And canine enthusiasts are paying tribute# today to the nation's new top dog.

WOMAN: For best in show at the 149th Annual## Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show,# I choose the giant schnauzer.

(CHEERING) GEOFF BENNETT: Monty, the giant schnauzer, took home the most prestigious award# in the U.S. dog show world last night.## Judges determined the 5-year-old most# closely matches the ideal for his breed.

Some of the other finalists included# a whippet named Bourbon, who has been## the runner-up three times now, plus a bichon# frise named Neal, a Skye terrier named Archer,## and a shih tzu named Comet.

Monty and# his owner, Sandy, don't get a cash prize,## but they do get a trophy, a giant ribbon,# and, of course, lots of bragging rights.

Still to come on the "News Hour": House# Republicans release their budget blueprint,## as the Senate confirms Tulsi Gabbard# as director of national intelligence;## cuts to the federal government continue,# this time within the Department of Education;## and actor Adrien Brody unpacks his Oscar-nominated# performance in the postwar epic "The Brutalist."

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, House Republicans have released# their long-promised budget outline as they seek## to fulfill President Trump's agenda while# cutting both the deficit and taxes.

But it## remains unclear whether the plan will achieve# those goals or if it even has the votes.

Congressional correspondent Lisa# Desjardins is here with the latest.

Good to see you, Lisa.

We will get into the details in a moment, bu.. LISA DESJARDINS: Right.

What Republicans do or don't do will.. also determine for potentially a decade who# the winners or losers are in this economy,## corporations, what happens to them.

What# about the poor?

And it will also tell us,## is Congress ever going to be serious# about bringing down the deficit?

All of that is at stake here.

AMNA NAWAZ: High stakes.

OK, so now to the proposal.. buildup and debate.

What exactly# are House Republicans proposing?

LISA DESJARDINS: All right, we have got some# numbers, so I'm putting on my glasses here.

But, first of all, I want to say this hasn't# been easy, but Republicans finally cobbled## this together today.

It is a framework.

It is a# sweeping plan at the start.

This is what they say## they want to do as their outline, for tax cuts,# $4.5 trillion worth of tax cuts over 10 years,## spending cuts somewhere, between# $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion.

For the border and for ICE, detention,# and deportations, $300 billion.

That## would be in effect almost immediately.# Now, all of this, you put that together,## Amna, and it would end up increasing the# deficit by most estimates of $3 trillion.

Republicans, there's an asterisk there, dispute# that, because they say the economy will make## up for that.

We're going to get into all that# context, I think, as we get down the road.

But## the key part here is that Republicans are doing# major tax cuts and also major spending cuts.

One of the programs that would be most on# the chopping block potentially for spending## cuts is Medicaid.

Now, that is the 72# million-person program in the United## States.

Republicans say it's full of waste and# fraud, that they want more work requirements.

Democrats say no.

But Speaker Johnson# says even if that's controversial,## it's a good start.

He put out this statement# saying today that he "remains focused on## working through the process to deliver# on promises made to the American people.## There's still much work to be done,# but we're starting on the right path."

Now, that's to say also this agreement isn't# entirely cemented.

At the same time, Democrats## are pushing back against this plan.

They're saying# it would hurt working and middle-class Americans.

REP. VERONICA ESCOBAR (D-TX): None# of this is going to help the pain## that Americans are feeling when they# go to the grocery store or when they## fill up at the pump or when they try# to save for a house or when they pay## their rent.

All of it is a sham and it's a# way to make sure that the rich get richer.

LISA DESJARDINS: But, of course,# Republicans control the House and## the Senate.

Whether this succeeds or# fails will be entirely up to them.

AMNA NAWAZ: So this is the# proposal from House Republicans.

Senate Republicans seem# to be moving in a different direction.

What's happening there and# is that a sign of bigger problems ahead?

LISA DESJARDINS: Again, something I think# we will get into more in the weeks ahead,## but this is all to do with a process# called budget reconciliation, which## is essentially a way to get around# the Senate's 60-vote requirement.

Republicans don't have 60 votes in the Senate.# They do have 53.

So they're using this process## as a shortcut.

Now, when you do that,# it's an elaborate series of steps.

Both## House and Senate must agree on a budget.# So Senate Budget Chairman Lindsey Graham## thinks the House is taking too long.

And so# he moved forward today with a separate plan## that would only focus on the border portion,# that border detention, ICE portion of it.

And he explained to reporters yesterday# why he thought this was necessary.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I heard Tom Homan,# pretty tough guy, begging us for money.

I beg you## to give me more resources.

I heard Russ Vought,# the OMB guy, say, ICE is out of money.

All I can## tell my House colleagues, whatever you need to do# to get the one beautiful bill, do it.

Do it now.## You have my blessing.

You have my support.

But if# we can't do it quickly, we need to go to plan B. LISA DESJARDINS: Tom Homan, the border czar.

Now, why is he nervous?

Let's look at the House# bounce of power right now.

.. have a majority there.

They really just# can't afford too many votes.

So he says,## let's take something that's an easy win# here.

We will see how this works out.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, in the Senate, a# win for President Trump.

His pick to be## the director of national intelligence,# Tulsi Gabbard, was confirmed and later## sworn in.

What should we know about her# and the other nominations in process?

LISA DESJARDINS: Former Congresswoman# Tulsi Gabbard sworn in just a short## while ago.

She passed through the Senate# with just one Republican voting no.

That## was former Republican Leader Mitch McConnell.

He wrote a statement saying that he was very# concerned that Tulsi Gabbard would not state## clearly that Vladimir Putin is behind the war# in Ukraine.

He said that is a real risk if the## intelligence chief doesn't acknowledge# that.

He said he does hope she rises,## in his views, to the responsibilities of the job.

But, otherwise, all the Republicans signed on# board.

And we are watching Robert F.. who passed a key procedural vote today, with# every Republican backing him.

His final vote,## we don't know how that will go, but he's well on# the way to confirmation.

We expect that tomorrow.

AMNA NAWAZ: Lisa Desjardins, thank you very much.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

AMNA NAWAZ:##President Trump handed more power# over to Elon Musk yesterday,## giving the billionaire and his team oversight over# hiring decisions across every government agency.

GEOFF BENNETT: And as Musk's power grows, he# continues to post misleading or false accusations## against government agencies to his more than 200# million followers on his social media platform, X.

During an appearance in the Oval Office,# Musk was asked about his false claim that## USAID planned to allot $50 million for condoms in# Gaza before his team stopped it.

Musk said this: ELON MUSK, Owner, X: Well, first of all,# some of the things that I say will be## incorrect and should be corrected.# So, nobody is going to bat 1000.

GEOFF BENNETT: Hours later, he continued# to amplify the same debunked claim.

Three weeks into this administration,# President Trump has given Elon Musk## enormous power over government agencies that# the billionaire's companies do business with.

Our White House correspondent, Laura Barron-Lopez,## is here with a closer look at the# intersection of his government## and private sector work and the potential# conflicts of interest all of that brings.

It's good to see you.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Good to be here.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, how muc.. Musk's companies make from his# federal government contracts?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Elon Musk owns six companies,## including X, the social media site, as well# as Neuralink, the brain implant company.

But the two that benefit the most# from government contracts are the## rocket ship company SpaceX and Tesla,# the electric car company.

And, in all,## Musk's companies have been awarded more than# $13 billion in government contracts over the## last five years.

That includes $3.8 billion# in government contracts awarded in 2024.

And a lot of those contracts are# with the Defense Department and NASA,## Geoff.

And Musk's Defense Department contracts# are estimated to be in the billions.

We don't## have that full number, given that some# of that -- those details are classified.

GEOFF BENNETT: More recently, Elon Musk and# his DOGE allies have targeted the FAA and the## Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

How does# his work there present a conflict of interest?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: President Trump# has said that Musk has free rein to## slash spending, as well as the work force.

So, first, with the FAA, they# regulate SpaceX.

And, last fall,## they proposed that SpaceX should be fined with## more than $600,000 for licensing violations.# The FAA is also currently investigating## SpaceX for some safety violations, so, again,# potentially damaging some of Musk's businesses.

Now, with the consumer watchdog, CFPB, Musk# has called for its elimination entirely,## posting on X: "Rip to CFPB."

And Musk# and his team are leading the efforts to## dismantle that consumer watchdog.

The White House# recently ordered for all work to stop there.

So why is this a possible conflict for Musk's# personal interests?

Well, for years, Musk has## been trying to turn X into an everything app.

That# includes a digital wallet for people to send money## to each other.

And that digital wallet known as# X Money is expected to launch later this year.

CFPB is the main federal financial regulator# of digital payment systems like that.

And## so Musk's X Money business would stand to# potentially benefit from a weakened CFPB.

GEOFF BENNETT: Is there any# evidence that Elon Musk is## already personally benefiting from his# work with the Trump administration?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: So, a recent New# York Times report found that the Trump## administration has fired officials or# issued halt-work orders at least 11## federal agencies.

And those federal agencies# have more than 32 ongoing investigations,## pending complaints or enforcement# actions into Musk's six companies.

I spoke to Eric Lipton, who co-authored# that report, and he summed it up this way: ERIC LIPTON, The New York Times: Across# the landscape of the federal government,## there have been changes in oversight through# firings by President Trump or departures through## the transition that have brought real# benefit to Elon Musk and his companies,## that there are lawsuits, there are# investigations, there are pending## matters that he is less likely to be fined# on as a result of or punished as a result of.

And there is real benefit that# Elon Musk has already achieved.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: So there is no# direct evidence so far that Elon Musk## has personally directed those firings, even# though DOGE has been involved in some of them.

But Lipton said that Musk's businesses# are still benefiting from these firings.

GEOFF BENNETT: Are there any# guardrails, any constraints for## Elon Musk, apart from President Trump# potentially saying he's had enough?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, there# don't appear to be any guardrails,## Geoff.

And standing next to President Trump in the# Oval Office yesterday, Elon Musk suggested that## he and his team will figure out for themselves# if there are potential conflicts of interest.

ELON MUSK: Well, all of our actions are -- are# fully public.

So if you see anything, you say,## like, wait a second, hey, Elon, that doesn't --# that seems like maybe that's -- there's a conflict## there, I felt like people aren't going to be shy# about saying that.

They will say it immediately.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Essentially saying# there that he can police himself.

But one of the main guardrails was weakened.# And that's the firing of inspectors general## across the board, which Trump fired# more than 17 so far.

And they are a## key part of investigating whether government# employees have complied with ethics laws or## if companies who have government contracts# have complied or are complying with the law.

And I spoke to ethics lawyer Richard Painter,# who served in the George W. Bush administration,## and he said Elon Musk cannot be touching# CFPB, that consumer watchdog bureau,## because he could potentially# be in a lot of trouble with## the criminal conflicts of interest# law that is currently in statute.

Now, White House Press Secretary Karoline# Leavitt was asked about that today and she## said that she has not seen that law and that# they trust that Elon Musk is following the law.

Ultimately, Geoff, it's impossible to know# the full scope of Musk's potential conflicts## of interest and how his control over these# government systems could personally benefit him,## because Musk has said and the White House has said# that he is not going to be publicly releasing his## financial disclosures.

He is just going to be# filling out that paperwork for the White House.

GEOFF BENNETT: OK. Laura Barron-Lopez, thanks, as always.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, also on Capitol Hill today,# the House subcommittee that bears .. different name, but the same acronym as Elon# Musk's agency, DOGE, held its first hearing.

GEOFF BENNETT: While members from both parties say# they were focused on rooting out waste and fraud,## Democrats were quick to point out that# Musk did not appear before the committee.

REP. MELANIE STANSBURY (D-NM): Directly to Mr.# Elon Musk, we are well aware that you are eager to## engage with members of Congress on social media,# but we're not here to play.

If you have serious## desire to engage in democracy and transparency,# we welcome you to the Oversight Committee.

Come## and testify in front of the American people under# oath, because we want to know what you're up to.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, Republicans took# aim at their colleagues across the aisle.

REP. BRANDON GILL (R-TX): If we# have learned anything so far,## it's that Republicans want to cut waste,# fraud and abuse from our federal government## and save taxpayer dollars, and Democrats# want to grandstand and play politics.

AMNA NAWAZ: For some more perspective# on this, we turn now to David Walker.

Between 1998 and 2008, he headed# the U.S. Government Accountability## Office that investigates federal spending.

David, welcome to the "News# Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

DAVID WALKER, Former United States Comptroller# General: Good to be with you, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: So I think it's fair to#.. someone who says there's absolutely no# waste or fraud in government spending.

But when you look at what DOGE is doing# and how they're doing the job so far,## do you think that they're targeting the waste# and fraud that you think they should be?

DAVID WALKER: Well, what they're doing is,## they're really doing a review of information#.. an audit.

And they're identifying areas that# could be fraud, waste, abuse, or mismanagement.

In most cases, it's arguably waste and# mismanagement, rather than necessarily## illegal or fraudulent activity.

And what they're# demonstrating is that the federal government has## thousands of outdated, non-integrated information# systems and totally inadequate controls.

And## that's one of the reasons that you're seeing# some of these sensational items pop up.

AMNA NAWAZ: And what about the way in which# they're going about this?

It's sort of more## of a sledgehammer than a scalpel approach.

We# have seen entire agencies like USAID essentially## shut down.

They're wholesale slashing programs# and other agencies.

Over 8,700 federal workers,## The New York Times reports,# have now been put on leave.

Is that the right approach, in your view?

And are# they making a dent in what they have done so far?

DAVID WALKER: Well, I think that they need to# be much more transparent about their targeting,## about what they're doing, who's doing# it, what type of background checks,## what type of clearances that they have been given.

In the case of USAID, I'm not sure what basis they# came up with to go from thousands of employees## down to about 300.

And I think that there needs# to be much more transparency with regard to the## criteria that they're using as to how they're# getting to some of those numbers as well.

AMNA NAWAZ: Where else would you want to see# them point their efforts?

In your experience,## where are some of those big-ticket# items when it comes to waste and fraud?

DAVID WALKER: Health care is number one.# There's also a lot of problems with regard## to certain payments, in particular with regard# to our COVID payments that were made.

I wouldn't## be surprised if there was a trillion dollars of,# frankly, fraud and abuse with regard to that item.

Taxes, we have a lot of situations where there's a## lot of improper activity that goes# on with regard to our tax system,## and also contracting activities.

So those are some# of the areas that I think are the most fruitful.

AMNA NAWAZ: Contracting, you mean specific to,# like, the Department of Defense, for example?

DAVID WALKER: Well, that would be one of the# big contracting agencies.

There are a lot of## agencies that engage in contracting, but# Defense is one of the biggest, for sure.

AMNA NAWAZ: You know, they also say, the DOGE# team and the administration, that they're doing## work that the existing bodies have not been doing,# the Government Accountability Office, for example.

But for the Trump administration to then fire# a number of inspectors general who would also## arguably be doing this same work, do you# think that hurts or helps their mission?

DAVID WALKER: Well, first, the inspectors general# are supposed to be on the front line of fighting## fraud, waste, abuse and mismanagement.

That's not# the GAO's job.

That's the inspector generals' job.

And I -- and whoever advised the president# to be able to fire all those inspectors## general in wholesale and without proper# notification to Congress didn't do the## country a favor or the president a favor.# It was inappropriate.

It was illegal.

And,## frankly, GAO and the inspector general# should be working in partnership with DOGE.

I mean, they have done a tremendous amount# of work with regard to improper payments,## with regard to duplication, overlap and# redundancy in the federal government that## could be very helpful to DOGE, but I'm# not sure DOGE is reaching out to them.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, when you look at the overall# mission here to cut spending, it clearly has a## lot of support.

But, effectively, what you have# is a private unelected billionaire with numerous## potential conflicts of interest here in Elon# Musk who has extraordinary access and power to## government systems and decision-making here, in# some case, usurping even congressional authority,## right,talking about halting congressionally# appropriated funds in some cases.

When you look at the way in which# they're going about their work,## does the end justify these means?

DAVID WALKER: What they're doing needs to be# done, but, as I said before, they need to be## much more transparent with regard to what they're# doing, how they're doing it, who's doing it,## and what type of background checks and conflict of# interest checks these people have been subject to.

I think, if that ends up happening,# it'll improve their effectiveness,## it'll improve their credibility, and it'll enhance# public trust.

But understand this.

DOGE is just## the first step in a multistep process.

DOGE# can help making a modest down payment in our## deficit situation.

But we're spending $5.5# billion a day more than we're taking in.

And, ultimately, the heavy lifting,# the real big changes are going to have## to be done through legislation# and a constitutional amendment.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is David Walker, former head# of the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

David, thank you.

Really appreciate your time.

DAVID WALKER: My pleasure.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Department of# Education is very much on the Trump## chopping block.

Details have not fully# been released yet, but President Trump## has signaled plans to dismantle it and# move some of its key functions elsewhere.

The Education Department oversees student# loans, federal funds for lower-income students## and special education programs, among many# other things.

Already, the DOGE group and the## administration have put a number of staff on# leave and are stopping more than $900 million## in contracts that allow for key education# research on student and school performance.

For more, we're joined now by Laura Meckler,# national education writer for The Washington Post.

Thanks for being here.

LAURA MECKLER, The Washington# Post: Th.. GEOFF BENNETT: So the $900 million worth# of contracts t.. have canceled all but decimated# the agency's research division,## which is a big part of what the Department of# Education does.

It gathers research and data.

What's the expected impact?

LAURA MECKLER: Well, a lot of this stuff is sort# of low-key stuff that we don't really think about.

So, for instance, one of the things that this# Institute for Education Sciences does is,## they do sort of a census of all# schools.

They gather information about,## how many schools are there,# how many kids are enrolled,## what's the demographics of those students,# what's the demographics of the teaching force?

This is information that we use for other federal# programs.

It's information that other researchers## rely on, that journalists rely on, that really# forms the backbone of our understanding.

So## that's an example of one of the contracts that# was suddenly canceled out of the blue on Monday.

You also have work to evaluate programs, just# try to understand better sort of what works## and what doesn't, whether it be an early# childhood program or a literacy program.## So it ranges from sort of big things# like that to sort of niche programs.

Also, the U.S. participation in international# assessments that, whenever you hear data like,## well, the U.S. ranks X or Y against other# countries in reading or math, that comes from## studies and from testing that's done.

And there's# a contract to do that testing.

That was cut.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump apparently# said today that he wants the Department of## Education to be closed immediately.

He# has routinely criticized the department## during the campaign.

And his criticism fits# within sort of the larger, longstanding,## conservative goal of rolling back the role# of the federal government in education.

Most legal experts agree that no president can# unilaterally shut down an established government## department or agency, but that hasn't stopped them# from trying to dismantle agencies that they don't## like.

What programs, what sort of assistance# for public school students would go away?

LAURA MECKLER: Well, there's really# two separate questions.

One is,## does the Department of Education# exist?

And the other is,## does the stuff that the Education# Department does, does that exist?

So you could theoretically take the functions# of the Department of Education and scatter them## about the government.

So, one thing, important# thing, that the Education Department does is, it## enforces civil rights laws.

And that could be done# by the Justice Department.

And it runs the federal## student loan program, as you mentioned.

That# could theoretically go to the Treasury Department.

Or you could decide, you know what?# We're not going to do this, that,## or the other.

There's a big program called Title I# that provides supplementary money for high-poverty## schools.

Theoretically, you could decide not to do# that, or you could cut it back, or you could just## turn it into a block-grant to the states and let# the states do whatever they want with the money.

So there's a lot of different# ways that this could look.

GEOFF BENNETT: When President Trump and other## Republicans talk about returning the# control of education t.. isn't that already the case, where states# and local districts control local education?

GEOFF BENNETT: I mean, the Department of# Education doesn't have a national curriculum.

LAURA MECKLER: You know, every time# I hear him say that, I just want to,## like, put a little asterisk up for# everybody to see and hear, because,## yes, education is already controlled by# the states and by local school boards.

States set broad rules that schools have# to follow, and then the school districts## implement them with the details, and they set# the curriculum.

The Department of Education, the## federal government, is not controlling education.# It is providing some supplemental work.

It is## enforcing civil rights laws.

It has a big role# in the federal student loan program for colleges.

But it is not -- we would# not be returning education## to the states.

That is where it is largely today.

GEOFF BENNETT: Linda McMahon is set to be the next# secretary of education.

Her confirmation hearing## is tomorrow.

Where does she fit within Mr. Trump's# overall vision for rolling back this department?

LAURA MECKLER: Well, we should say that Linda# McMahon is very close to President Trump.

She## was co-chair of his transition committee.

She# was his administrator for the Small Business## Administration last time around, one of the people# who came back for a second -- the second term.

So they're very close.

It was presumed# that she will be ready willing and -- well,## we will see if she's able to implement# his vision.

But her own past is actually## not particularly incendiary.

She has a very thin# education record, but she does have an education## record.

And the work that she did in Connecticut,# the things that she said when she was running for## Senate in Connecticut unsuccessfully twice# were much more mainstream education ideas.

GEOFF BENNETT: Based on your reporting, what# do educators think about all of this?

Because## there was just that National Report Card# that was released a couple of weeks ago,## and it found that most fourth# and eighth graders in 2024 still## performed below pre-pandemic 2019# levels in both reading and math.

It suggests the status quo isn't working.

LAURA MECKLER: Right.

And that actually is the argument that .. Department.

They will say, lookit, we have these# horrible test scores.

The things aren't getting## better.

We have a crisis.

How has this helped?# It hasn't helped.

So let's try something new.

But other people look at it and say, no, it# doesn't mean we need less support from the## federal government.

It means we need more# support.

So the things that we know work,## such as high-dosage tutoring# or extended time in schools,## they say they need more support for# those for those kind of efforts.

So, how you interpret those data, like so much## here in D.C., it really depends on# sort of what your point of view is.

GEOFF BENNETT: Laura Meckler with The# Washington Post, thanks so much for coming in.

LAURA MECKLER: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: Now to another look# at this year's upcoming Oscars.

One of the year's most acclaimed films, "The# Brutalist," received 10 nominations.

And its star,## Adrien Brody, a winner at last month's Golden# Globes, is a favorite for actor in a leading role.

He recently joined senior arts correspondent## Jeffrey Brown for our arts# and culture series, Canvas.

ADRIEN BRODY, Actor: May I keep this?

JEFFREY BROWN: In "The Brutalist,"# Adrien Brody plays Laszlo Toth,## a fictional Jewish Hungarian architect,# survivor of a Nazi concentration camp,## his past always present as an immigrant# and outsider in postwar America.

For Brody, it was the kind# of deeply meaningful role## that comes only rarely in the life of an actor.

ADRIEN BRODY: You are receiving material,# interpreting material to the best of your## abilities, and sometimes that material comes# and it's incredibly powerful.

And, sometimes,## it's powerful.

But when you have something that's# incredibly powerful, it really -- it's something.

It was a war on, and yet many of# the sites of my projects survived.## My buildings were devised to endure such erosion.

JEFFREY BROWN: The film, directed by Brady# Corbet, is big in every way, big dreams,## big buildings, big personalities, a# story that unfolds over several decades## and runs some three-and-a-half-hours long,# including, rare these days, an intermission.

Brody is there for nearly every# minute, playing a damaged,## complicated man driven by his# art and his need to build.

ADRIEN BRODY: Most deeply creative# people have moments of, I don't know,## unpredictability.

They're just -- they're consumed# with work and ideas and can't do everything,right?

(LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROWN: When you get a role,# do you immediately start thinking,## who is this person, in this# case, who is Laszlo Toth?

ADRIEN BRODY: Sure.

Sure.

I try to -- I try# to go into any character without judgment and## to uncover qualities that are accessible and find# avenues into the things that are less accessible.

JEFFREY BROWN: Brody made a first big spike-haired## impression in Spike Lee's# 1999 film "Summer of Sam."

In 2003, aged 29, he became the youngest# ever to win the Oscar for best actor,## playing a Jewish musician in Nazi-occupied Warsaw# in Roman Polanski's "The Pianist."

That role,## he says, offered ways toward understanding# Laszlo Toth years later.

But he also drew on## a more direct connection, the immigrant experience# of his Hungarian-born grandparents and his mother,## Sylvia Plachy, a noted photographer# who came to this country at age 15## in the wake of the 1956 Hungarian# uprising crushed by Soviet tanks.

How much were you able to mine that,# or how much ends up in the characters?

ADRIEN BRODY: A lot.

A lot.

JEFFREY BROWN: Yes?

ADRIEN BRODY: I think my grandfathers' .. assimilating and speaking with a very distinct# accent, and in spite of being so gregarious and## charming, still being treated as a foreigner and# not quite able to excel as much as he could have,## and my mother's journey and my# mother's understanding of loss## and her sensitivity to the loss of others and# how that's been very much part of her work.

JEFFREY BROWN: Winning the Golden Globe# Award in January, Brody paid tribute.

ADRIEN BRODY: Although I do not know fully how# to express all of the challenges that you have## faced and experienced and the many people who# have struggled immigrating to this country,## I hope that this work stands to# lift you up a bit and to give## you a voice.

And I'm so grateful.

I will# cherish this moment forever.

Thank you.

FELICITY JONES, Actress: Haven't# you told them anything about me?

ACTOR: Laszlo, how long have you# been here now?

Four, five years?

JEFFREY BROWN: The sense of connecting to,# becoming the character is fundamental to## Brody's approach.

He said he seeks to -- quote --# "act less and feel honest in an interpretation."

ADRIEN BRODY: Acting has some kind of# connotation of acting like something,## doing an impression of something.

Any actor# who's studied has found the greatest sense## of connection when they're# able to do a bit less of that.

And the only moments that you are# really acting are when you're not## connecting to that.

And that is# not what one should be doing.

JEFFREY BROWN: In "The Pianist," in# which his character has a painful limp,## Brody went so far as to put rocks in his shoe.

You made yourself uncomfortable.

ADRIEN BRODY: I make myself feel a bit# of dis.. required to put something on.

I can just# kind of experience it and it'll trigger## something else.

I think that's the beauty# of being an actor is that you can -- you can## only get better if you can remain focused# and grounded and connected with the work.

JEFFREY BROWN: He's regularly appeared# in films and television series,## including starring in the 2005 blockbuster "King# Kong," smaller roles in several Wes Anderson,## a billionaire investor with# his own island in "Succession."

ADRIEN BRODY: For me to come your# way, I have a little wish list,## a little EPS juicing, some# stock buyback.

Let me in.

JEFFREY BROWN: But he's lamented the dearth# of truly important roles.

For a time,## he put more of his creative energy# into an early love, painting.

ADRIEN BRODY: It's never a clear path.

It's# one of constant need to find things that aren't## quite apparent, that you have to make your# way through it.

And every once in a while,## something will come along that is a# beacon, that is an opportunity to do## the best work and that you're around people# doing their best work, and that it lifts you## up and gives you space to exist in the full# capacity in which you are yearning to give.

They do not want us here.

Audrey, Attila's# Catholic wife, does not want us here.

JEFFREY BROWN: He also knows that, with# its themes of uprootedness, antisemitism,## art in a time of upheaval, "The Brutalist"# feels very relevant to our own moment.

ADRIEN BRODY: It's great to have an artistic# film like this present in the conversation.## It shows that a film that speaks to much# deeper issues and is an artistic work,## is not a commercial work can be commercially# viable and that audiences are not only curious## enough to see them, but yearning# for storytelling of this nature.

And so I'm really grateful to be a part# of something that speaks to all of that.

JEFFREY BROWN: Adrien Brody goes# for his second Oscar on March 2.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm# Jeffrey Brown in New York.

AMNA NAWAZ:##And that is the "News Hour"# for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News H..