(soft music) (confetti blowing) - [Frankie] Sports betting is live in Connecticut.

That's right after years of failed attempts, state lawmakers finally pushed legislation through in 2021, and that's allowed Connecticut to join a growing number of US states in allowing Americans to bet on games.

The stakes are big for Connecticut's bottom line and for its people who can risk a lot with the swipe of a finger.

And for the two tribes that are deeply involved in the effort.

We're talking about it now on Cutline: The Big Gamble (soft music) I'm Frankie Graziano.

Today we'll get into the millions of dollars the state can make off of your bets.

And we'll talk about the resources that are available to you, should the legalization of sports betting in Connecticut, turn into a problem in your home.

But first, where can you place a bet?

Two tribal nations in Connecticut will take action at brick and mortar sportsbooks inside their casinos.

The Mashantucket Pequot's are licensed to offer sports betting at Foxwoods Resort Casino, while the Mohegan tribal nation will hold it at Mohegan Sun.

You could also go to a bunch of restaurants around the state that have historically offered off-track betting, like Bobby V's in Windsor Locks, and Shea's in Manchester.

And there, you can bet on sports thanks to a deal the Connecticut Lottery struck with sub-licensee, Sportech.

Let's take you now to one of the locations, Foxwoods, for a sports betting demonstration.

- How are you doing guys?

My name is Josh Trego from DraftKings.

I'm the retail operations manager.

We're here at Foxwoods Resort, and we're gonna show you how to make a bet.

First thing we're gonna do is we're gonna need to fund to bet, so you're gonna have to use cash or one of these vouchers that can fund the machine.

You're just gonna scan it down here at the bottom and you'll see the balance is now on the machine.

So we're gonna go with NFL.

And I'm sure no one's really gonna care about the Jags in Cincinnati, so we're just gonna go to Tampa Bay and the Patriots.

I'm from Tampa Bay, so we're gonna go Tampa Bay.

We're gonna put the money line at minus 280, which means you've gotta bet 280 to win $100 here.

And you know what?

I'm gonna put the whole 50 on it 'cause that's how confident I am.

50 is gonna win me 67.85 plus my 50 back.

You just place this green button right here for place bets, and my winning ticket will come down here at the bottom.

- As you can see, it's pretty easy to place a bet, and that's scary, right?

Potential life-altering decisions at the tip of your finger.

Later on, we'll hear from a sports better who got addicted.

We're also gonna hold a panel on problem gambling to ask stakeholders what they're doing to protect state residents.

Before we go there, let's talk about the state's biggest players in the gambling landscape.

The tribes that run Connecticut's two casinos, the Mashantucket Pequots and Mohegans.

Why are we starting here?

Well, up until this moment, most legal Connecticut gaming, except for the lottery, has happened at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun.

And as lawmakers tried to legalize sports betting here, state officials struggled through closed door negotiations with the tribes who argued that sports betting was a casino game and it was therefore theirs to profit from and operate.

For sports betting, the state of Connecticut will get 13.75% of revenue derived by the Mashantucket Pequots and the Mohegans Did you know, the state already gets 25% of revenue from slot machine pulls at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun?

It's been that way since 1994, and that deal is why the state continues to have a tight gaming relationship with the tribes.

Officials don't want to see that money go away.

When MGM Resorts International got a license to open a casino in nearby Springfield, Massachusetts and concern grew that it had cannibalized brick and mortar gambling here.

The state of Connecticut tapped the two tribes to open an off-reservation casino, 12 miles away in East Windsor.

Well, this partnership essentially held up the legalization of sports betting in Connecticut.

First off, MGM didn't like the prospect of East Windsor taking away its business, a legal challenge loomed.

Second, it took almost two years for the Federal Department of Interior to formally recognize the project, something that could have happened within 45 days.

MGM didn't like that either and it sued.

Is there a casino up in East Windsor now?

No.

Once the tribes made a sports betting deal with the state, they announced the casino would be scrapped for at least 10 years.

MGM then dropped its lawsuit and it appeared the governor of Connecticut, Ned Lamont, had gotten everything he wanted.

He'd used expanded gaming, including sports betting, to solve another problem.

He calls it his global gaming resolution.

So now he's happy and with the exception of the people in East Windsor, who are unhappy that their town won't see new money from a prime piece of real estate near I-91, all stakeholders are pretty satisfied.

I talked to Rodney Butler, the chairman of the Mashantucket Pequot tribal nation, the day Connecticut law makers greenlit sports betting.

He told me that it was the anniversary of the attack on the Mystic Fort, that the Mashantucket Pequots and Mohegans were aligned under historic gaming legislation exactly 384 years to the day that they were on opposite sides of the Pequot War.

For Cutline: The Big Gamble, I took a trip to Foxwoods for another talk with Butler.

- When I think about what my ancestors went through 384 years ago, you know, at that Mystic Fort, being burned to the death at the hands of the colonists, and the group of warriors that survived that and then persevered so that I could sit here today and celebrate sports betting.

I mean, it really is an amazing story and an incredible history for us that we celebrate day in and day out here at Mashantucket.

- We're sitting here on federally recognized land, that's your land.

- Yeah.

- 10,000 people, you say, were here probably before the Pequot War at Mashantucket land, 40 afterwards, something like that.

So, fascinating, right?

We have to talk about this history when we talk about it.

Why is casino gaming now intertwined in this and why should we be talking about the history again, as we talk about sports betting?

- Well, when, when you talk about casino at large, the only reason that it exists is because we exist, and that we're here, and the federal government saw to it to find economic opportunity for tribes when they pass IGRA, Indian Gaming Regulatory Act back in 1988, right?

And so that's the sole reason why Foxwoods and Mohegan and gaming in Connecticut exists to begin with is to support the tribal nations.

And so you have to understand that history, not just the recent history, the last couple of decades of Foxwoods, but the centuries, millennium, that we've been here on these lands.

- And because you do good business for the state, you say something like $8 billion in revenue, that's why these relationships still exist.

I wanna get into a little post-mortem, so to speak, of the negotiations.

One thing that I was paying attention to towards the end was the actual consecration of the deal, Mohegan tribe went first.

I can understand that might've been a little frustrating for you.

Were you a little upset that they, that went on a little bit of a different direction?

You were holding out to try to get a little more money for online gaming at that point.

- Yeah, well, it wasn't to get a little more money for online gaming, it was to get what we believed was a fair deal, right.

And that's what we were holding out for.

And not necessarily that we're holding out, the way that unfolded, I won't get into the gory detail of it.

There was a slight disagreement between the three parties, and we didn't believe we were done negotiating, and it was a surprise to us that others were, right?

Water under the bridge.

Families have, you know, differences from time to time, and we've been cousins for- Just as I talked about the history of Pequot, Mohegan has been there with us, right?

Mohegan actually was a village of Pequot going back 400 years and that split actually started with the beginning of the conflict that led to the Pequot War and the massacre.

- But that's natural competition because nowadays because of the fact that you have two casinos so close to each other, obviously you want people to come in here and bet.

One thing you guys were in lockstep on was exclusivity on sports betting.

- Yeah.

That was a major concession.

Even when we went through the compact amendment process with the Department of Interior, that was the very first thing they flagged like, "Hey guys, what are you doin'?"

Right?

And we had to walk them through it that it's a sum of the parts.

And so it wasn't just about sports betting, even though everybody was focused solely on sports betting, we reiterated that we do have exclusivity in gaming, right?

Including sports betting, but gaming itself.

And getting online gaming throughout the state exclusive for both tribes and not giving that to the state as a third operator, was a major concession on the state's part as well.

So we felt like it balanced out enough to move forward with the deal.

We didn't love it.

And originally our first proposal was that there was only gonna be us and Mohegan, and that we would operate the venues around the state as well.

- Yes.

One thing that definitely had the tribal nation back a step was the pandemic.

We're talking about a little history here.

This casino hasn't closed its doors in the 30 years that it's been open except for the pandemic.

Are you seeing some recovery?

Tell me some positive signs that you have to say that maybe you're getting over this.

- Well, I mean, I think we still have a long way to go.

It is a little bit frustr-, not frustrating, a little disheartening to see the headlines across the country that everyone's, everything's rebounded and gaming sectors in some regions are doing better than they were pre-pandemic.

The market here in Connecticut hasn't rebounded quite to that same level.

In fact, we're still well below what we're seeing pre-pandemic in 2019.

We measure that by the number of employees as well.

So before we closed, we had 5,000 employees.

We're now at just over 3,000 employees.

So we're slowly bringing them back.

- Where you at at the worst of it?

Employees, cause I know the big fact- - The worst of it, at the worst of it, we were down to about a dozen employees securing the property and that was it.

And all the executives working for free, pretty much.

- That's the perspective.

You're up to 3,000.

- So we went from 5,000 to almost zero back up to 3,000.

And then again with the opening that we just celebrated with the sports bar, that's another 50 employees.

And we have a couple other tricks up our sleeves where we're hoping to add a couple of hundred more employees in time.

- But do you think that sports betting can have a tangible impact on that?

- It will, it absolutely will.

We've seen it in every other market where once they did in-person sports betting, it brought a different crowd, a different set of patrons to the property that exposed them to the restaurants, the bars, the entertainment, the hotel, gaming that you see all around us here, that hadn't been there in some time.

And so with that additional foot traffic, we're going to need more employees to provide the level of service that we want to provide.

And we assume that we'll be able to slowly racket back up those employment numbers.

- People come here, Rodney, you give him a free drink, free blender or whatever you give them, a free room, free concert.

You want to get them in here.

It's generally about brick and mortar sports betting.

I know you were always supporting that, but now you got online betting too.

Does that unnerve you a little bit that maybe online betting somebody might want to put down money from their couch and not necessarily come to the sports book and bet.

What do you think?

- Well, no, not at all Frankie.

I mean that's the, that's the beauty of it, right?

It's one ecosystem it's working with online, with in-person and it extends that experience.

The amazing experience you're having at Foxwoods, you can then sit on your couch and enjoy that, bet on that game and then take those rewards and come back to Foxwoods for a great show, a great meal, save for a hotel room.

So it's a perfect combination of the two.

- And by getting people here, it's the experience, right?

- The reason for coming here is the excitement that we've now created, right?

I mean the magnificent space that we have now up and running for sports betting, and look, it's fun to bet online on your couch, but you want to be around that crowd and be cheering on your favorite team every once in a while in person.

- Yeah, you like the Giants?

- Uh, maybe?

- But sell me, right.

So what's the, what's the experience of coming here, right?

Food, ambience, screens.

I understand you got a big screen.

- Yeah.

Well the venue itself is just second to none, 40 by 40 video monitor.

I mean, you've never seen anything like that in any sports venue.

- 40 feet by 40 feet?

- 40 feet by 40 feet, it's two floors of entertainment.

The venue itself, over 7,000 square feet.

We'd have seven teller stations opened up.

- Kiosks everywhere too, so you don't have to worry about lines.

- Exactly the kiosk are all around the property.

So even if you don't want to be in the venue itself, you can stop at one of the 50 kiosks that we now have playing around the property, or just jump right on your phone and interact with the sports bar as well while you're standing there.

- So let's talk about kind of revenue figures, anything you can tell me in terms of the whole expanded gaming pot.

Do you guys have any idea?

Are you forecasting how much you guys can make off of this?

- Yeah.

So just to give it perspective, the current gaming market for Foxwoods and Mohegan state-wide is close to a billion dollars in gross gaming revenue.

And so that's the metric that we're using for online sports betting and gaming.

So we think year one, the gross gaming revenue will be somewhere around 200 million and that includes the lottery as well and their operations and us and Mohegan.

And we think that's going to grow up to about 400 million over the course of five to six years.

- How will this money help and how do you intend it to help your people?

- Yeah, well, that's the core of everything we do, right?

The only reason that Foxwoods exists is because we needed to provide services and programs for our tribal citizens.

And so whether it's our students going to school, the health programs for our elders, the retirement programs for our elders, the mental health and disability programs that we have for those in needs, our court, fire, police system, that's where these dollars go to from the existing at Foxwoods and what we're now generating from sports betting and gaming will allow us to secure those programs and enhance them and other services that we need to provide for the community.

- Long you've been an advocate for bringing sports betting to Mashantucket Land and it's here sports betting live in Connecticut.

Thank you for taking us through the operation.

- No, thank you, Frankie.

We're excited.

- The other tribal nation that's licensed as part of this expanded gaming deal with the state of Connecticut, the Mohegans.

Like Foxwoods resort casino, Mohegan Sun will also have a retail operation dedicated to sports betting.

That'll be completed in the winter for now a temporary Mohegan Sun, FanDuel Sportsbook has been set up to take your bets.

Ray Pineault is the president and CEO of Mohegan gaming and entertainment.

Ray, thank you for having us down at Mohegan Sun.

And thank you for giving us a sense of what sports betting looks like in practice.

You have this great temporary sportsbook that you've setup.

What's the experience like for people?

- The experience is going to be outstanding.

We're going to have four betting windows.

We're going to have a 41 kiosks.

We're going to have a massive video wall that can show every NFL game on a Sunday.

Can show all the college games on Saturday.

It's going to have a dining experience so you can order your wings and your burgers and your sliders.

And it's going to be a great opportunity for people to come and bet and sit down and have a cocktail and then watch their favorite team as they compete on a Saturday and a Sunday and baseball with the world series coming up.

So we're going to be a great opportunity to bet on multiple sports throughout the day.

- But that's temporary.

It's more like a prelude to what's to come in the future with the permanent signature.

- Absolutely.

We had to do something.

This has actually came on us very quickly.

We always knew that we'd have to have a permanent sportsbook location and we're doing that.

We've taken our old racebook space And we're turning that into a permanent sportsbook space.

It'll continue to have a racebook space in there.

It will be one of the largest FanDuel branded Sportsbooks in the entire country.

In the permanent Sportsbook it'll have over a dozen actual betting windows along with the 40 kiosks, along with private better wins, and a second tier that'll allow for private spaces for people who want to rent it for a day or for a game, or for a special event, let's say, like the super bowl or the world series.

- Mohegan gaming and entertainment already has properties where sports betting is legal.

I'm looking particularly at Pocono and also the resorts casino in New Jersey.

Does that give you an idea of how sports betting can do?

How well you can do, Mohegan gaming and entertainment, with sports betting?

- Yeah, I think, you know, having the experience and having offered sports betting as well as iGaming at our other properties at Pocono in New Jersey, it gives us an understanding of what the market will bear.

It also gives an opportunity to understand, you know, what the customers are looking for.

It gives us an understanding of how to market to these guests and what the market demands.

And it also gives us an idea of how big the market could be based on size of markets based on populations, based on income levels and other factors that we use to determine the market size.

- The big thing there is trends, right?

So it's only been three years since sports betting has been legalized, widespread legalization.

So are you able to glean longterm or whether it's going to be a great proposition short-term?

What do the trends tell us right now?

- You know, this is a really interesting time, right?

So I always hate to go back to the pandemic where we always have to talk about that, right?

So a lot of these jurisdictions that opened up, opened up during the pandemic and without any bricks and mortar casinos at all, they saw some tremendous numbers that were happening that were unexpected in a lot of circumstances or grew tremendously that we wouldn't expect here, right?

We'd expect that we will have a very successful launch and that we'll have a fantastic product here in Connecticut, But we wouldn't see that heightened, that would happen during the pandemic when people were stuck at home without all of the other entertainment options that they had available to them.

- So these big mobile gaming numbers that we're seeing, it's not necessarily that brick and mortar gaming can't work.

It's just that the sports books in the casinos weren't open yet because of the pandemic.

So you think you can have a more robust launch with a sports betting in brick and mortar.

- Yeah.

Take the last nine months, right?

If you look at what New Jersey is doing right now, what Pennsylvania is doing right now, they're doing 2019 numbers.

So that's pre-pandemic numbers, yet sports wagering and iGaming are continue to grow.

Not at the levels they were during the pandemic, but they're continuing to see incremental gains.

So I think these two can live symbiotically together and then actually enhance each other by being through an operator like this one.

When you look at the operators and you look at people who have actually bricks and mortar, that they can flourish in these spaces.

- COVID-19 grinding everything to a halt nationwide, worldwide, really and that had a great impact on the Mohegan Sun Casino, Foxwoods Resort Casino.

We're talking about closures.

You've never been closed before, but you had to close for a short time during the pandemic.

How are you recovering from that?

- I would say since January, we've had a slow, steady climb back to what I'll call normalcy.

Our guests are returning each month more and more.

So we're seeing better visitation from our guests.

We're starting to bring more things back like we've brought the arena back.

So we've been able to bring guests into shows.

So with seeing things return to normal, obviously there's still some concern about the Delta Variant and that's something we obviously keep close track of and keep an eye on.

I mean, I'm very proud of the fact that we haven't had an outbreak here.

That's not to say we haven't had any cases.

We've had a minor number of cases, but we've been able to keep it under control because of all the measures we've taken to make this a safe place for our guests and our team members.

- Used to be that you could only bet legally on sports in Nevada and several other states.

That's because of the professional and amateur sports protection act of 1992 that put a federal ban on sports betting in states that didn't have it already.

PASPA aim to protect the integrity of sports, PASPA got struck down in 2018 paving the way for states like Connecticut to allow its residents to wager on sporting events.

That didn't happen until this year in between lawmakers trying to push sports betting legislation through and each session, the efforts stalled.

Most of the sports betting deal was actually worked out behind closed doors and lawmakers weren't even there.

The state negotiated with the two tribal nations that ran Foxwoods Resort Casino and Mohegan Sun, that deal came in March and legislation went through two months later.

No action at the betting window thought.

At that point, despite the governor signing sports betting into law, a couple of things needed to happen before anyone could take a bet in Connecticut.

The federal government had to approve the state sports betting agreement with the tribal nations and a state regulatory authority had to have its say.

Now it's here.

Governor Ned Lamont got in on the fun on September 30th, here he is at Foxwoods.

He made the first bet there and at Mohegan Sun that day.

(confetti blowing) American betting operations have generated more than $2 billion in revenue this year, according to the American gaming association, maybe that's why he's excited.

Let's give a round of applause.

Or that those bets are the culmination of three years of work for Lamont and his administration.

I just mentioned those closed door tribal state negotiations.

I actually got someone here who can bring the state's perspective on those talks to light.

Paul Mounds Jr. represented Governor Ned Lamont in sports betting negotiations.

He's Lamont's chief of staff.

Welcome to Cutline, Paul.

- Thanks for having me.

- And I got another guest with me, an entity that the state negotiated into the expanded gaming package that's the Connecticut lottery.

Rob Simmelkjaer is CLC chairman.

Hello, Rob.

- Hi.

Thanks for having me.

- Thanks for coming on.

I'm going to start by delving into sports betting talks with the Mashantucket Pequots and Mohegans.

Paul, the Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation chairman seems to think the state got the better end of the deal to legalize sports betting and expand online gaming.

How do you think the state did?

- Well, first of all, I think all of us did very well.

I led a team that included our secretary of OPM, Melissa McCall, David Layman, our commissioner of DCD and at the time our general counsel, who's now a judge, Bob Clark.

And we went through a whole process that started in the summer that prepared us to be able to go into negotiations with the two tribal nations in the late fall, early winter timeframe.

And I would say overall, everyone made out very well because everyone put all their cards on the table and let it be known what were the gives and what were the takes.

And I think at the end of the day, we're going to have one of the most modernized gaming platforms that can be seen anywhere in the nation.

- One big theme that it seemed like it wouldn't concede for the tribal nations was that sports betting exclusivity.

They'd have to be the only ones who could offer it in their minds, but sports betting simply doesn't seem to be a casino game here.

Why don't you think it is a casino game, Paul?

- Well, I think one of the things is we've looked at other legal precedent on that matter, but also to remember this, as part of this global gaming agreement, it was also including to allow for the two tribal nations to do iCasino games outside of their tribal lands on a digital platform.

We also allowed for us for through the lottery to have iLottery and an expanded platform as well.

So this was a global gaming agreement, not just solely focused on sports betting as it is, but each party had their own mindset and their own legal precedent of what they felt sports betting was and that allowed us to all get to the table and negotiate this once in a lifetime global agreement.

- Rob, we're going to bring you in here.

Every time I've heard your corporation's president Gregory Smith pitch lawmakers on sports betting in the last few years.

He's had this kind of amiable manner of address letting them know, hey, we work for you, for the uninitiated.

Can you tell us about your relationship with the state?

- Well, thank you.

And yes, I mean, as Greg likes to say, when he testifies, as I say, we are the state's gaming company, we exist for the sole purpose of driving revenue to the general fund of the state of Connecticut and so when we fight to have Connecticut lottery included in whether it's sports wagering or online lottery, or obviously our existing lottery business, which is, you know, very significant driver of revenue to the state, we're doing that, not to benefit shareholders or executives or, you know, anybody from the for-profit point of view, this is all to benefit the taxpayers of the state of Connecticut, so that is why it was so important for CLC to be included in this sports betting scheme and why we think this really was a great deal for the state, for the taxpayers, you know, as well as for the tribes.

- But now there's going to be gross gaming sports revenue and I just want to kind of go through it with you on how that breaks down.

- The statute is set up in a way where there's sort of a minimum set that we'll have to pay by that minimum is sort of academic for us because we'll pay well above that in terms of the effective rate that we pay the state for our operations.

I mean, just to give an example in our existing lottery business we had $1.5 billion in sales in the last fiscal year of traditional lottery, draw games, instant tickets and that resulted in, you know, after prize money, which is the primary expense of lottery, we wrote a check to the state of Connecticut of more than $400 million in remittances to the general fund.

- Tell them where to go and where they can bet.

- There'll be a website, playsugarhouse.com/ct, where you'll be able to bet, and that will be an app as well.

You'll see all of that listed everywhere on the Connecticut lottery website.

It'll be available at lottery retailers.

So we have 15 retail locations that the statute authorizes us to stand up around the state.

We'll be launching with about 10 of those in October.

That's through the sportech deal that you referenced earlier, so places like Bobby V's in Stamford, Sports Haven in New Haven, Bobby V's up at Bradley Airport in Windsor locks, as well as the various Winners OTB locations around the state, places like Waterbury, Norwalk.

So there'll be lots of places and our goal is that no one will have to drive more than 30 minutes if they want to bet in person with one of our retail locations.

The only exception to that being, of course, up in the area of the tribal casinos, the 25 mile radius around those casinos, we will not be operating any retail.

- You mentioned Sportech and there are a key piece of this global gaming resolution.

The global gaming resolution is a real reason why personally, I think the state did pretty well on this deal.

Sportech has been the betting operator at some of those sites that Rob was talking about.

They wanted a bigger piece of sports betting, they didn't get it.

They even teased a potential lawsuit, but now that they're cut in through the lottery, Paul, that's not going happen this lawsuit, it seems like.

So what's the status of the state's relationship with Sportech?

- I say the state's relationship with Sportech is great.

I would say throughout this whole process, the state was keeping in mind how best Sportech can be a part of it.

We did as part of the global gaming solution before it was presented to the legislature, included Sportech to be a part of it and as soon as the bill passed, I give a lot of credit to their leadership there who reached out to myself directly and led to myself to pass it off to Rob and the team and Greg Smith over at the lottery to really solidify a deal.

- I want to represent the position of Sportech in this conversation after Rob and the Connecticut lottery announced their partnership with SportsTech, they sent me a written statement that I'll read for you now, "Our team is very excited to play a key role in this historic moment for the state as sports betting becomes a reality for Connecticut."

I want to finish up with Paul here.

How much can the state really make off of sports betting?

What do you think?

- Well, we projected around for the fiscal year about 40 to $50 million, obviously that was taken account how fast we can get this up and also just the overall marketplace.

We think that we'll be able to meet our projections and I think also we've had great partners.

- All right, guys, thank you so much for joining me.

It's really important to go through your partnerships here and really what folks are most excited about when they talk about revenue, how much money they could, the sports betting can make and expanded gaming can make for the state.

And thank you for helping us kind of answer those questions for folks.

- Thanks for having us.

- Thank you.

- An obvious concern with the legalization of sports betting or any gaming expansion really is problem gaming.

In short order, Connecticut's gone from being a state where you couldn't legally place a bet on sporting event X to now having it available to state residents at the swipe of a pointer finger.

There is a downside of sports betting.

It's something the industry and the state say they've thought through.

And so I've invited a few stakeholders in the new sports betting landscape to outline that for our viewers.

Corey Fox is the Vice President of Government Affairs and product counsel for FanDuel.

FanDuel was partnering with Mohegan Sun to help the Mohegans deliver mobile and in-person sports betting.

Michelle Siegel is the Commissioner of the Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection.

The state agency tasked with regulating new gaming in Connecticut.

The department also licenses operators.

And Jeremy Wampler represents a unit with the state department of mental health and addiction services that supports gambling addicts.

He's the agency's problem gaming services coordinator.

Michelle, we'll start with you.

How has problem gaming really factored into the process to regulate sports betting and expanded online gaming?

- Oh, it's been an important factor for us.

And thank you for focusing on this issue because it was a priority for the department.

The reality is this is a new activity for the state of Connecticut.

And it's one that I think for many people they can do responsibly and they can really kind of have fun, but it's absolutely going to be a problem for some people.

And so we really talked to other states, looked at what they were doing and put a lot of thought into this and built a lot of safeguards into our regulations, that really be sure there are opportunities for people who do have difficulties with this to be able to put some parameters or a limit on their ability to engage in gaming.

- What's baked into the rules and regulations?

Like does there have to be a certain amount of stickers on gaming kiosks or with the hotline numbers, things like that, or necessary size for printing gambling ads?

Does it get that granular?

- It does.

So there's a number of things.

I mean, first and foremost, we're going to be launching a self, a platform for people to just self exclude from gaming altogether.

And so you'll be able to sign yourself up on this list for different terms one years, five years, or even a lifetime.

And that information would then be shared with the operators so that they know not to market to these people, not to let them set up the account.

Each platform needs to allow people in connection with their account to place the limit on how much they're allowed to deposit, how much they're allowed to spend or how much time they spend with their account open.

We also, when people log in, log off, there's going to be information on problem gaming resources, how to self exclude, how to impose these limits for yourself.

Also information on the time duration of the last session.

So that patrons really have a clear understanding of how much time they are spending in this activity.

Similar types of signage are going to be required at the retail locations as well.

So if you decide to go to a retail place to engage in gaming, you'll also have this information about resources.

One last thing we've also done is if somebody is trying to log out and end their session, they can't be induced to stay on longer.

So there's a lot in there.

And we really gave a lot of thought to that.

- Corey Fox, nowadays sports betting platforms have technology that can weed out problem gambling.

So people can't do further damage if they lose too much.

Some of the stuff that the commissioner was talking about at that point, too.

How does your technology work to curb problem gambling?

- Yeah, sure.

Thank you for having me.

I'm happy to talk about responsible gambling.

So we really have a two-pronged approach to finding problem gamblers on our website.

One is our customer service agents are all trained on responsible gambling issues and to the extent they are engaging with our users, they're always looking for what types of language they're hearing from those users and whether they're using any sort of trigger words that'll suggest that they're having some sort of issue managing their play.

The second is we have sort of an algorithmic computer-based approach where we're looking for certain triggers in terms of how users are using the site, whether they're escalating their play, chasing losses, playing late at night, these types of things give us some sort of indicator that there is some sort of issue with that user.

So FanDuel really believes in taking a proactive approach leading from the front as an industry leader here.

FanDuel has also been one of the first operators to partner with the American Gaming Association on their "Have A Game Plan" campaign to educate users.

And we also offer users the Gamban product so that if they do self exclude, we can ensure that they don't just download another app or use an illegal website.

So they can ban that across five devices that they use.

- Since we've regulated sports betting and it's now out of the shadows kind of, have you seen it go up or down problem gambling issues?

Do you, do you have a sense of that?

- No.

And I'd say, you know, look, sports betting already exists in Connecticut and elsewhere through the illegal market where there are no responsible gambling tools or protections.

So I think what we're finding here as you regulate sports gambling is this is the opportunity for those users who have a problem to make use of these types of tools and to protect those users.

- Jeremy, I'm hoping you can help us drill down on the scope of problem gaming in Connecticut.

Do you have any kind of numbers, Jeremy Wampler in terms of, I guess, how many people have issues in Connecticut?

- There was actually a recent study back in 2016 that looked at problem gambling across the country and they drill down into each state's demographics and found that Connecticut specifically, our rates of gambling disorder is about 1.1% of the general population.

Now that doesn't take into account the folks who are struggling with co-occurring substance use and mental health issues.

Those individuals, their rates of problem gambling and disorder gambling double.

So, and the rate, it sounds like a small number at 1.1%, you know, but if you look at how many people live in Connecticut, that's around roughly 40,000 people.

So that's quite a large number of folks who are impacted by gambling disorder.

- Is mobile betting going to exacerbate the problem, you think?

- You know, honestly, we, you know, there's been various forms of expansion across the globe over the past couple of decades and the rate of gambling disorder remains about the same.

What we do see as an increase in severity of symptoms.

We see an increase in money related crimes.

We see a larger impact on families and significant others.

- I just want to ask you, Consumer Protection Commissioner, Michelle Siegel, where are we at in terms of credit?

I know that was a big issue that you faced in terms of making the regulations or at least some criticism that you faced from lawmakers.

What do you think about funding accounts and any limitations on funding accounts that might present themselves?

- Yeah, it's a tricky question and it definitely requires the state to strike a balance.

So the statute itself, so the law that was passed allowing for the suspended gaming does allow people to set up their accounts using a credit card.

So that's really a decision that was made through the legislative branch appropriately, since they are the policy makers for the state.

And so, you know, once we know that's allowed, then it becomes, how do we address that?

And you know, one thing we haven't allowed is Venmo, PayPal, Apple Pay at this point, sort of these opportunities where you can start going through a whole bunch of credit cards really quickly and have them all sort of lined up like that.

So that's one thing we've done.

I mean, it was interesting, in the hearing on our regulations, there were some people who felt by not allowing that we weren't going far enough and making it easy enough for people to fund their accounts and to engage in this activity where other people felt we should have been more strict.

- Jeremy, I just want to finish up with you here.

I just want to ask you a couple of questions about being prepared to actually meet the problem head on.

How are you gearing up for all of this?

Do you think you'll be ready to serve problem gamblers?

- This is probably the largest expansion we've seen in Connecticut since the casinos coming online.

So it's quite significant, but we're prepared and going out educating folks, making sure that our provider network is aware of some of the safety measures and things that they can share with people who are seeking services, educating the communities.

Cause that's another area we find time and time again, where in terms of mental health and substance use issues, the one area that most people are not aware of or that familiar with is around gambling.

So we're working with our prevention network to work in the communities, to educate parents, to educate community members around problem gambling.

And also some of the responsible gambling measures that are in place that people will be able to access with this expansion.

- In closing, I want you all to allow me the opportunity to let our viewers in on some problem gambling resources available to them.

The Connecticut Council on Problem Gambling offers a live chat service at CCPG.ORG and the following helplines, call (888) 789-7777 or (800) 346-6238 to access them.

Thank you all for joining me for this important panel discussion on responsible gaming.

- Thank you.

- My next guest actually went through the state problem gambling services unit.

His story, which is gripping and relevant to this discussion was featured on the PGS website.

I'm pleased to be joined now by Tom Ferrari, who's in recovery.

Welcome to cutline.

- Thank you.

Nice to meet you.

Thank you for having me.

- It's really good to have your story because people need to hear it.

Let's get right into it.

When did you start gambling?

How early in your life?

- In high school once I got a job where I was able to make a little bit of money.

I had funds to gamble.

It was fun.

And I would say my sophomore year in high school is where I got introduced to gambling.

- When you get involved in high school, how are you placing bets?

- That was old school.

So I went, I graduated in '99, So I was betting with a bookie.

It's someone that you know.

You could bet on credit.

- Did you ever get in that situation where you were really behind?

What was like rock bottom for you?

- All the time, Rock bottom was finding ways to get money to pay off a debt.

And that came to either borrowing against my 401k, asking for money for my friends, credit limits on credit cards, I was able to you know, use a credit card to fund it.

It was when you want to gamble, you find ways to get money.

- What was your biggest debt?

How much were you in the hole would you say?

- When I stopped, 15 grand.

- How do you get over that?

How do you first of all, pay that back?

- By the end it was on a credit card.

So I add a constant reminder every month when I paid it, that it was money that was long gone.

It was from a stupid football game from months ago, but I'm still reminded of it.

So yeah, it was around 15 grand, maybe even a little bit more.

And it was paying off a credit card because that was the last stop where I was actually running up a credit limit with the credit card because I had to find ways to do it without my wife finding out.

It's really that simple.

- Your wife.

I don't know if you were married at the time, but you've known her for a long time, right?

You knew her around this time.

How long ago did you meet your wife?

- 1998.

So I've been with my wife for 22 years, 23 years.

- You got three kids?

- Three kids.

- You have any kids when you were in debt?

- Oh yeah.

Yeah.

- So- - Yeah, it was a disaster.

It was bad.

- And I'm imagining, you're worried about losing your family at this point.

- Oh yeah everything, you know, you think you hit a rock bottom, but you don't realize that there's another rock bottom.

There's always a rock bottom as long as you're gambling, there's a rock bottom.

The only time that you reach your final rock bottom is when you get some help and you stay in recovery.

So my rock bottom at that time was an insane amount of debt I had to pay back.

My wife said she was going to leave me.

My life was in shambles.

I was an alcoholic at that point, I depended on marijuana to get through the day.

So that was my final rock bottom.

But if I had continued to gamble, I would have found a new rock bottom, but my wife was along for the ride the whole way.

She seen the good, the bad, the ugly.

- We got in touch, Tom and I, through the Problem Gaming Services Unit with the Department of Mental Health and Human Services in Connecticut.

And that's where you were able to get help.

And you've been in recovery.

Tell me what they're able to do with you.

I understand you have a mentor.

Tell me that process and how somebody can get help - Yeah, well, I mean, they give you all the resources.

It's just a matter of whether you want it.

You know, I was seeing a therapist once a week, for years, I had a sponsor who was always available.

You know, they hook you up with doctors if they feel like you need some kind of medication throughout, you know, the therapy sessions.

They kind of figure out whether you kind of need to be on medication.

They don't force it, but it's just- - It's real addiction.

- Oh, it is.

I think there's a stigma to it, but it's a real addiction.

But I guess what I'm trying to get at is the program gives you every resource you need to get better.

It's a matter of whether you want to take advantage of it.

All you have to do is pick up the phone and someone's willing to see you.

- I'd say you took advantage of it because this is what, nine years ago, when it was really the worst of it?

- Nine years ago, yeah.

- Nine years this man has not placed a bet on sports, correct?

- Not once.

- And then we're talking about also being sober from alcohol.

- Yeah.

Yeah, that was another bumpy one.

I just kind of decided enough's enough.

And this is going back to 2014.

So I kinda just, I quit everything cold turkey - pot, drinking.

I relapsed a couple of times with the drinking, but kind of when I get my focus on something, I tend to be stubborn, which works in a good way and a bad way.

But yeah, I decided to quit cold turkey.

And then there was a lot of dominoes that fell because of that.

A lot of mental health.

I didn't realize how much I depended on alcohol and marijuana to get through the day.

So when I got, so when I stopped doing that, I really had no idea how to, how to cope with life.

- Did you have something that you went through when you were younger?

Is there an event that kind of spurred this on, do you think?

- There's no underlining trauma or anything else in my life that led me to gambling, I simply loved it.

Loved it.

Loved to gamble, loved sports.

You combine those two things together.

It was a very easy recipe for disaster.

There was alcoholism in my family on both sides.

So I really feel like my brother and I really didn't stand much of a chance in terms of alcoholism.

As for the gambling, I think I just liked it.

- But I'm happy to say that you've overcome that.

At least I feel like you are, you're in recovery.

- I am - But where's the family at now?

How are you doing with your wife and three kids?

- My family couldn't be better.

I'm a family man.

I'm very simple.

I like to stay home.

It's a very loving house.

My wife and I get along.

Believe it or not, we're one of the few couples out there that actually enjoy each other's company.

I'm very involved with my kids.

I mean, you'll catch us outside every single day, if the weather allows it.

It's at a point now where my wife kicks me out of the house and says, go do something.

You know, you're always home, but things are good.

I mean, everything in my life is transparent now.

I don't have to keep track of my lies.

I have nothing to hide.

My kids will never know the old me.

That was always drunk, that was always gambling, always broke.

But family life could not be better right now.

- That's good to hear because- - Yeah - We have you on this program to talk about the worst of it, because the advent of sports betting in Connecticut is here.

- Yeah.

- Is this something you're really nervous about?

We have this good discussion offline.

You're talking about being concerned that other people could find themselves in the position that you were in.

- Yeah, I think it's easier to fall into to gambling right now.

It's so easily accessible.

You can't watch a TV without having it at the bottom of the screen.

Gambling is legal now.

So you have, you know, I listened to sports soccer radio, every 20 minutes there's a commercial for DraftKings.

You know, any of those apps.

The casino's right up the road.

I heard Connecticut is going to have a gambling at their casinos now.

You can go there and put a thousand dollars on the Chiefs, if you want it.

These kids, it's an uphill battle for these kids, I hate to say it - But they don't even have to go to a bookie like you did.

They don't even have to go to the casinos if they don't like they don't have to go to a retail spot that the lottery is sponsoring.

They can do it from their phone.

- Yeah.

- And bet from absolutely anywhere.

That's different.

Right?

You feel like that's more dangerous?

- Very dangerous.

It's common sense.

When you have different avenues to gamble, you're going to take advantage of it.

It requires no effort to take your phone out and gamble.

If you have a problem with gambling right now, it's going to be tough for you.

Not to say that there's no hope, but it's going to be tough.

- These are the potential pitfalls of legalized sports betting.

We've been talking about them here.

Tom's story is one people will want to hear so they can avoid those pitfalls.

And to know that if things get bad, help is available.

Tom, thank you so much for coming up to our Connecticut Public studios in Hartford to provide this really, I think it's riveting testimony.

- Yeah, no problem.

Happy to be here.

Thank you.

- 1 to 2% of state residents, fall victim to problem gambling.

It's the downside of sports betting.

But for the state it appears to be worth the risk.

The upside, money coming in.

Widespread gaming expansion is translating into billions of dollars spent at the betting window.

Can the market stay hot?

Connecticut like the 26 other states that allow sports betting is betting on it.

Jon Wertheim is a enterprise rider with Sports Illustrated and he's been a part of the relatively new SI gambling launch.

Hoping John can help us with some of the trends within the gambling industry, to answer the question you all may be asking at home, whether sports betting is a moneymaker for states.

John, welcome to Cutline.

- Thanks for having me, pleasure.

- It's been three years since the Supreme court struck down the federal ban on state authorization for sports betting.

You have a sense of how the sports betting industry is doing as a whole since then?

- You know, I mean, I think it's been like so much.

It's been a little bit distorted by COVID, which obviously without as many games and without as many people going to casinos and that sort of changed the math a little bit.

But you know by most, New Jersey is public and everyone is sort of using New Jersey's revenue, sort of as much as they do the Green Bay Packers, where we're sort of looking at what public numbers are available and then extrapolating.

And you know, we're over half a billion dollars a month wagered.

And even with maybe a 5% handle the back of the envelope, math would suggest this is lucrative stuff.

And keep in mind, this is just one state.

So again, this whole notion of if you can't beat them, join them.

I mean, I think a lot of states are realizing their citizens are wagering on sports.

And rather than have all the New York residents cross a bridge and plunk their money down in New Jersey, I think states like New York are saying, well, wait a second, we'd like to capture that revenue ourselves.

It's here and it's, as you say, it brings in potentially billions of dollars to states.

It's happening anyway, the rationale has been, let's put this in the sunlight.

- Hey, we're always going to struggle with this because when you're talking about a black market, you're not able to see it.

And it's not necessarily out in the sunlight as you were talking about earlier.

You think widespread legalization of sports betting is resulting in people coming out of the shadows to gamble?

- Right now, the math is fuzzy.

And what we do know is that people are very fond of making wagers on events that are yet to be determined.

This is a sort of basic, this is behavioral economics, this is nothing new.

It's very hard to know real numbers.

It's very hard to know how much money is being put back into play.

That you may bet hundreds of thousands of dollars, but only go up and down a few thousand dollars.

Well, that a hundred thousand dollars is being counted in the entire handle.

It's still unclear how much of this is happening legitimately versus in the shadows.

But I do think that the speed at which the leagues have embraced this sometimes holding their nose and sometimes not, it's really remarkable.

I mean, again, just just a few years ago, this was absolutely forbidden territory.

And now, you know, the NFL's own network traffic's in odds.

We see casinos partnering with college teams, not even professional athletes.

Casinos and Sportsbooks are partnering with college athletic departments.

You see publications, Sports Illustrated, ESPN now traffic in odds and in point spreads the way they never would have.

This is all happening very quickly.

- One big thing that you potentially might be thinking about as a big story, as something that maybe could turn all of this down and maybe make this into a downside.

Is any kind of match fixing or maybe point shaving?

Is that something you think can really happen, John?

- Sports absolutely depend on integrity, right?

If we can't trust the results, it's professional wrestling and the whole enterprise collapses.

Right now, everyone is very optimistic.

It's this new revenue stream.

You know, the fans love it.

The leagues love it.

The players are getting extra revenue.

Everyone is sort of at this trough.

If there is some sort of cheating scandal, if there is match fixing or point shaving, as you say, I think we're really going to rehash this whole discussion.

Right now, I think everyone is working on the assumption that this is on the up-and-up and that, you know, when you watch an NFL game, Tom Brady is not going to be impacted by corrupt forces.

And that the integrity is not going to be undermined by gambling.

I don't know, does that happen at a college game when the athletes aren't paid?

Does that happen at a low level tennis match?

And I think if we start to see results being corrupted, I think all of this optimism and giddiness we have right now is going to be a recast very quickly.

- John.

I mean, you're a veteran writer and in addition to doing that, you also appear on the national television program 60 Minutes.

So I'm just grateful to be able to have you give us some time here today.

So thank you so much for joining us on Cutline, John.

- My pleasure.

- 30 years ago, lawmakers feared betting on sports would tarnish the integrity of sport.

But today Wertheim says he sees a dramatic embrace of gambling on sports.

The American Gaming Association sees it too.

They say the number of Americans planning to bet on NFL games in 2021 is up 36%.

Now that it's here, we'll have to look back and ask, was it worth it?

Will it actually put tens of millions of dollars into the state's economy?

Will we actually protect people from problem gambling?

People will undoubtedly need help.

If you're watching this and you're worried about it, the number you can call, (888) 789-7777.

If you want to chat with someone online, you can head now to see CCPG.ORG.

When it comes time to take a second look at the rollout of sports betting in our state we'll be here to talk about it.

This is Cutline: The Big Gamble.

For Connecticut Public, I'm Frankie Graziano.

I thank you so much for tuning in.