AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: Much of Jamaica is left with severe damage and no power in the wake of Hurricane Melissa, as the storm batters Cuba and the Bahamas.

AMNA NAWAZ: Vice President Vance and Charlie Kirk's widow host a college event in Mississippi, aiming to chart a path forward for the young conservative movement.

GEOFF BENNETT: And federal funding cuts force many top researchers, including the man known as the Mozart of Math, to consider leaving the U.S.

TERENCE TAO, Professor, UCLA: In the worst-case scenario, which I didn't even think was on the radar, I mean, maybe, if the institute closes down, I can no longer fund my students, I have to find another option.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

Caribbean islands have suffered terrible devastation in the Hurricane Melissa.

The death toll is in flux, but initial estimates show the storm has killed dozens across Haiti and Jamaica.

AMNA NAWAZ: Melissa is one of the strongest storms the region has ever seen, leaving widespread destruction in multiple Caribbean nations.

The hurricane landed first on Jamaica yesterday as a Category 5 storm.

It was the strongest storm to ever hit Jamaica, leaving streets submerged, homes destroyed and 77 percent of the island without power.

WOMAN: A lot of my friend's house is gone, nice, nice home.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the fishing village of Alligator Pond, residents like Dennis Elliot began to piece back together their lives.

DENNIS ELLIOT, Alligator Pond, Jamaica, Resident: You have got to pick up your tools in your hand, the claw bar and the hammer, the machete, the spade, and move on to the future same way, hoping for never to see a storm like this again.

ALVIN ENGLISH, Spur Tree, Jamaica, Resident: It was terrible.

I witnessed about -- I'm 54.

And I witnessed about three dangerous storms.

This one was worse.

It was terrible.

The wind, it was violent.

It was terrible.

AMNA NAWAZ: Despite the devastation, Alvin English says this agricultural area, Jamaica's so-called breadbasket, will survive.

ALVIN ENGLISH: And we go down, we come back up.

We go down, we come back up.

AMNA NAWAZ: But Dennis Zulu, United Nations coordinator for the region, warned of long-term consequences.

DENNIS ZULU, United Nations Resident Coordinator: Not only were food crops and fields destroy, but we will also see a possibility, a very likely possibility that Jamaica will have some issues in terms of food security for the coming months.

What we're seeing in preliminary assessments is a country that's been devastated to levels never seen before.

AMNA NAWAZ: Melissa made landfall as a Category 5 hurricane on the southern coast of Jamaica Tuesday morning.

Early Wednesday, the storm hit Cuba as a category 3, weakening to Category 2 as it churned across the island headed to Haiti and Turks and Caicos.

Melissa is expected to reach the Bahamas later today before moving towards Bermuda and into the Atlantic.

Before the storm hit Cuba, over 700,000 people took shelter and just a brave few ventured out today to witness the storm for themselves.

REYNALDO CHARON, Santiago de Cuba Resident (through translator): It was hell all night.

The winds have been terrible.

AMNA NAWAZ: Even as a Category 3 storm, Melissa has wreaked havoc, ripping the roof from Antonio Correoso's home in Santiago de Cuba.

ANTONIO CORREOSO, Santiago de Cuba Resident (through translator): The impact was brutal.

First, there was a strange calm.

Then, suddenly, it roared like a wild beast.

I had to run for cover.

There was nothing I could do.

AMNA NAWAZ: Haiti was spared a direct hit, but one coastal mayor said people were killed in floods after a river burst its banks.

Residents in the already impoverished nation now do their best to stay dry, like Francine Louis Jean.

FRANCINE LOUIS JEAN, Les Cayes, Haiti, Resident (through translator): I am living with the kids.

I have nothing to give them.

We wake up in the water.

We sleep in the water.

AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary of State Marco Rubio posted online that the U.S.

sent supplies, rescue and response teams to the affected areas.

But for many in the region, help may come too little and too late.

And to get the latest on the ongoing rescue and relief efforts, we turn now to Brian Bogart.

He's the World Food Program country director for Caribbean operations, and he joins us now from Jamaica's capital of Kingston.

Brian, welcome and thank you for being with us.

What can you tell us about what you're seeing on the ground where you are in Kingston and also what you're hearing about the extent of the damage on the rest of the island?

BRIAN BOGART, World Food Program: Sure.

I have just seen some of the first images coming through from an aerial survey that has flown over the parish of St.

Elizabeth in Southwest Jamaica, where Hurricane Melissa made landfall as a Category 5 with winds that were exceeding 175 miles per hour.

It looks absolutely devastating.

And this is the first imagery that has allowed me to really grasp the extent of the damage - - destruction is what I should say.

And we have teams on the ground right now who are trying to make contact with these communities, trying to understand what the logistics network looks like and how we can access those communities through roads that are viable, what's being cleared, where bridges may be washed out.

And that's really the ultimate priority, in addition to search-and-rescue, which is which is also taking place simultaneously.

AMNA NAWAZ: Brian, Jamaicans and the area have seen hurricanes before, for sure.

Is there any way to compare this storm to storms of the past?

BRIAN BOGART: Sadly, this area of St.

Elizabeth, I was there almost a year ago because Hurricane Beryl, which was a Category 4 storm, hit that same part of the country and devastated it.

And this is an area that is a coastal community with lots of people who are fishermen, fisherfolk, and it's also the agricultural heart-bed of the country.

So it's sad to say it's much worse than last year, but last year was extremely damaging to those communities as well.

So people will have invested in reconstructing their homes and trying to get back on their feet.

And, a year later, an even more devastating system has passed through their communities.

It's heartbreaking.

And there's no other way to describe it.

AMNA NAWAZ: And you just heard a U.N.

official in our report there mention there could be long-term consequences when it comes to food instability, and particularly because of the agricultural areas that were hit.

I know WFP had been warning about funding being tight going into these storms.

Do you have the resources that you need to see through long-term support for Jamaica and the region?

BRIAN BOGART: And I think your point is absolutely valid.

We are very much in need of resources to be able to stand up the immediate response.

But in a situation like this, where communities are completely devastated and the agricultural potential of the country is being undermined, we need to have a longer-term perspective on food security, both to meet people's immediate needs for food today, but also to invest in those communities to get them back on their feet and able to produce for the rest of the country really.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, in terms of immediate needs, we heard Senator -- or Secretary Rubio say that the U.S.

is sending relief teams.

What can you tell us about the coordination between your organization and the American official efforts?

And what else is desperately needed right now on the ground?

BRIAN BOGART: I mean, we have always coordinated extremely well with our partners in the government of the United States, and we continue to count on their support and leadership to help us respond to crises like this.

And we're in constant communication.

We are enjoying an incredibly close collaboration, and very much look forward to responding to this crisis together.

And what's really critical for us now is to be able to move supplies, not only food, but also shelter, water and sanitation equipment, and logistics assets, really, mobile warehousing, forklifts, generators, the kinds of equipment that we need to substitute for existing infrastructure that's been destroyed, so we can actually start support into these communities.

And, really, we're talking about saving lives.

And it's absolutely urgent that we're able to do so.

So we need transport capability.

We are working with aviation sector partners.

We're working with private sector partners from the shipping industry and anyone who's able to offer support at this time to deliver lifesaving support to the people of Jamaica.

AMNA NAWAZ: All right, that is Brian Bogart of the World Food Program joining us from Kingston, Jamaica, tonight.

Brian, thank you so much.

We're sending all our best wishes to you and your team.

BRIAN BOGART: Thank you.

Thank you very much.

GEOFF BENNETT: The day's other headlines start at the Federal Reserve.

The Central Bank today cut its top-line interest rate by a quarter-point for the second time this year.

Speaking to reporters, Chair Jerome Powell said the long-running risk of higher inflation had to be balanced with signs of weakness in the job market.

He said another cut this winter is not a guarantee.

JEROME POWELL, Federal Reserve Chairman: With downside risks to employment having increased in recent months, the balance of risks has shifted.

A further reduction in the policy rate at the December meeting is not a foregone conclusion, far from it.

GEOFF BENNETT: Adding to the uncertainty over the Fed's next meeting is a lack of economic data, with many reports affected by the ongoing government shutdown.

President Trump is due to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping in South Korea in the coming hours on the last leg of his tour through the region.

Before that, though, Mr.

Trump attended the APEC Summit today, where he touted progress on a framework trade deal with South Korea.

South Korean companies are set to invest $350 billion in the American economy in exchange for U.S.

tariff relief.

The deal hasn't been signed yet, but Mr.

Trump told leaders it's all but done.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: A lot was determined, very much determined.

And we made our deal, pretty much finalized a trade deal.

GEOFF BENNETT: South Korean officials said the potential deal involves both cash, investments and cooperation on shipbuilding.

There was also pageantry amid the trade politics, including the president being presented with this replica crown from one of Korea's ancient dynasties.

In Eastern Europe, the U.S.

military has confirmed it's reducing its presence along NATO's border with Ukraine.

The news was first announced by NATO member Romania, which signaled that about 700 U.S.

troops would be pulled from Romania as part of Washington's broader shift toward the Indo-Pacific region.

The U.S.

Army Command in Europe insisted this is a positive sign of increased European capability and responsibility.

But the Republican chairs of the House and Senate Armed Services committees say they strongly oppose the decision, which, as they put it, sends the wrong signal to Russia.

In the Middle East, the Israeli military carried out a targeted strike on Northern Gaza today, even as Israel says its cease-fire with Hamas is still in place.

The attack near Beit Lahia targeted areas where Israel says Hamas was storing weapons.

Palestinian officials say at least two people were killed.

It comes after Israel carried out heavy airstrikes overnight across Gaza, killing more than 100 people, including 46 children.

Some were struck at a central hospital, as seen in this footage from our producer in Gaza, Shams Odeh.

One man described how he lost loved ones in the strike.

HAMID HABIB, Displaced Palestinian (through translator): The women were killed while sleeping.

They couldn't wait to go from sleeping on the dirt in tents to sleeping in some form of shelter.

To the negotiating parties, I wish you could see our tragedy here and how dire our situation is.

GEOFF BENNETT: Israel says the strikes were in retaliation for the killing of an Israeli soldier in Southern Gaza, as well as a violation by Hamas related to the return of hostage remains.

They were the deadliest attacks since the cease-fire started earlier this month.

In Brazil, officials say the death toll from a massive raid on a drug gang in Rio de Janeiro has jumped to at least 119.

That includes four policemen.

Dozens of bodies were laid side by side on a city street, as residents looked for missing relatives.

Yesterday, some 2,500 officers carried out what officials are calling the largest such anti-drug raid in the city's history.

The U.N.

today called for an end to the so-called cycle of extreme brutality in Brazil's policing methods.

Rio's state government says those who were killed had resisted police.

A jury in Illinois convicted a former sheriff's deputy today of second-degree murder for killing Sonya Massey, who had called 911 for help.

The jury did not convict Sean Grayson of first-degree murder, which could have meant life in prison.

Instead, the 31-year-old faces up to 20 years or possibly probation.

Grayson and another deputy responded to Massey's home last year after she reported a possible intruder.

Grayson shot Massey as she held a pot of boiling water.

His lawyers argued he feared that she would throw it at him.

ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, Attorney for Family of Sonya Massey: This second-degree murder charge, make no mistake.

Sean Grayson is convicted of murder.

He is a murderer now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Outside the court, lawyers from Massey's family said the lesser charge still amounts to justice.

A.I.

giant Nvidia became the world's first $5 trillion company today.

The chipmaker's market value has surged amid an A.I.

boom that is reshaping the world's economy.

But it's also raised concerns about a potential A.I.

bubble.

Nvidia's shares jumped nearly 3 percent today.

Elsewhere, on Wall Street, stocks closed mixed after that Fed rate cut.

The Dow Jones industrial average slipped about 75 points on the day.

The Nasdaq rose 130 points.

The S&P 500 ended virtually flat.

And letters from a pair of World War I soldiers have been found in a bottle on a beach in Western Australia.

The men wrote them just days after departing for Europe back in 1916.

Their words are still legible more than a century later.

In one, Private Malcolm Neville tells his mother that: "The food is real good so far, with the exception of one meal which we buried at sea."

Another from Private William Harley wishes that the finder of his message -- quote -- "be as well as we are at present."

A local family came across the bottle as they were cleaning up the beach earlier this month.

One of the soldiers' granddaughters called the discovery a miracle.

Still to come on the "News Hour": how the massive data centers being built for artificial intelligence could affect electricity bills; Israel returns Palestinian prisoners as part of the cease-fire deal, but their conditions spark new accusations of abuse; and journalist Jonathan Karl discusses his new book looking at the Trump administration's focus on retribution.

Following Charlie Kirk's killing, conservative activists have stepped in to fill the void at his organization Turning Point USA and complete his tour of college campuses, while building on the movement he led.

His widow, Erika Kirk, and Vice President J.D.

Vance are scheduled to speak tonight at the University of Mississippi, where our White House correspondent, Liz Landers, is now.

So, Liz, what are we expecting from the vice president tonight at Ole Miss?

LIZ LANDERS: Vance is joining here at Ole Miss' campus in Oxford, Mississippi, today for this event.

And Erika Kirk, after Charlie Kirk was killed in September, said that she wanted to continue her husband's work of these kinds of high school and college campus events.

This is the lifeblood of Turning Point USA, reaching young people, teaching them, according to TPUSA, about faith, freedom, family.

She will be here tonight joining the vice president.

We are actually expecting him to take questions from the audience, like Charlie Kirk was doing the day that he was assassinated at Utah Valley University in September.

GEOFF BENNETT: And, Liz, as you say, I know you have been speaking with students there all day.

What have they been telling you?

LIZ LANDERS: Well, one young woman that we spoke with yesterday -- we came in to attend the Turning Point USA meeting, their prep meeting that they did last night and talked with some of the attendees afterwards.

One young woman telling me that Kirk's assassination changed how she thought about politics.

MARY CATE DOUGHTY, Member, Turning Point USA at Ole Miss: Before Charlie Kirk's assassination, I wasn't in Turning Point USA.

Now I'm -- I have joined as a member.

And, I mean, I think it really puts things into perspective about how divisive things have become in our country and how important it is for people to get involved and just be proud of what they believe in.

LIZ LANDERS: Mary Cate was one of several young women that we spoke with on campus here.

We're not seeing the gender divide that is playing out some in national polling.

There are just as many conservative women, if not more women, in some of these meetings that we have seen that TPUSA is doing and the organizing that we're seeing here on campus as there are young men.

We spoke with one of the young men who's involved in TPUSA here on campus, Shaun.

He's from this area.

He said he grew up with liberal parents, but since he's come to Ole Miss, that he has joined a number of conservative groups.

SHAUN GUSSOW, Member, Turning Point USA at Ole Miss: Despite everyone telling me that groups like these are full of hate and filled with people who just want to shoot you down and just racist and all the other words, ever since I have went to these meetings, it has been the complete opposite.

I have never met a more welcoming group of people who want nothing more than to share ideas and have a good time and focus on change, not just talking.

We need to go out and do things.

LIZ LANDERS: And Shaun, like everybody else that we have spoken with while we have been here on campus in the last two days, also talked about his strong faith, Christianity, and how Charlie Kirk's message talking about faith, God, that is also a big part of why he was drawn to TPUSA, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: What about the college Democrats?

Have they had any semblance of a presence on campus today, understanding this is Mississippi?

LIZ LANDERS: Yes, of course.

There's a coalition of liberal and progressive groups that is organizing around the same time that this event is scheduled to happen this evening.

They're doing a Mississippi Rise Up town hall.

They're going to have local elected officials as well as some national federal officials like Congressman Ro Khanna.

And their goal tonight is to show dissent against the Trump administration and Vance's participation in this event.

We spoke earlier today with some of the leaders of the College Democrats here at the University of Mississippi.

CALVIN WOOD, University of Mississippi College Democrats: My belief is that this event hosted by TPUSA is not going to be a constructive place for dialogue and like a safe place for any of us to speak out about our beliefs and our dissent against the Trump administration.

So I think this is a really fantastic opportunity for our folks to come together and speak out in a safe space.

LIZ LANDERS: And free speech is a big part of the Turning Point USA ethos, but there was a University of Mississippi employee who was fired in the wake of Charlie Kirk's killing for social media posts that she had reposted online.

She is now suing the chancellor of the school, saying that her firing violated her First Amendment -- Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: Liz Landers in Oxford, Mississippi, for us tonight on the campus of the University of Mississippi.

Liz, our thanks to you.

AMNA NAWAZ: A poll from the journal "Nature" earlier this year found that 75 percent of researchers in the U.S.

are considering leaving the country.

That includes a man who's been dubbed the Mozart of Math.

Stephanie Sy examines what's behind a potential scientific brain drain.

TERENCE TAO, Professor, UCLA: And you're only allowed to use it three times.

STEPHANIE SY: UCLA Professor Terence Tao has spent his entire life solving problems, not just theoretical ones.

TERENCE TAO: And every scan is like taking one measurement.

STEPHANIE SY: Tao is explaining how his research led to an algorithm which dramatically cut the time of MRI scans.

TERENCE TAO: MRI scans that used to take, say, three minutes, they cannot take 30, 40 seconds.

STEPHANIE SY: Math research has led to countless technological breakthroughs.

TERENCE TAO: These are things that mathematicians played with in like the early 20th century.

STEPHANIE SY: Hailed as the Mozart of Math, Tao enrolled in college by the time he was 9.

As a teenager, he immigrated from Australia to the U.S.

and began a Ph.D.

program at Princeton.

In 2006, he won math's highest honor, the Fields Medal.

And, today, he's widely considered to be the finest mathematician of his generation.

What was appealing about being a researcher and a Ph.D.

student here in the U.S.?

TERENCE TAO: Because there's just this long tradition of excellence and people know that they can come here, they can be welcomed.

I was very influenced by American science shows.

"Cosmos" in particular had a big impact on me.

ACTOR: Let's count the bets and find out.

TERENCE TAO: I learned to count from "Sesame Street," for instance.

Also, they're just -- I bet, just because of scale, you have got to have 100 good universities, 100 good math departments.

There's just so many conferences and workshops, and there was a really lively ecosystem.

I don't consider myself super political.

STEPHANIE SY: But the lively ecosystem that helped develop his genius is under threat.

TERENCE TAO: For the first time, I'm actually concerned about, like, existential issues.

Like, departments could conceivably, like, either close down or drastically reduce their research component.

STEPHANIE SY: As part of the Trump administration's push to slash federal spending, the National Science Foundation was forced to suspend $1 billion in grants.

The cuts directly hit Tao and UCLA's Institute for Pure and Applied Mathematics, where he directs special projects.

TERENCE TAO: Suddenly, my life is fund-raising and finding alternative sources of funding and making sort of triage plans.

If -- how do you -- like, if funding is -- if we can't restore funding, like, what do you cut first?

STEPHANIE SY: The White House has cited multiple reasons for federal research cuts, often without clear explanation or connections to its rationale.

That includes opposition to DEI policies and an ongoing battle with many universities over antisemitism and what it calls wokeness.

The uncertainty and instability in funding is causing many researchers and scientists, including Tao, to weigh whether to leave the U.S.

TERENCE TAO: I myself have been contacted by departments from Europe and Australia and China.

STEPHANIE SY: Would you consider... TERENCE TAO: I mean, until, yes, six months ago, I'd say I'm very happy here, that, I mean, things have worked here for 30 years.

But, yes, in the worst-case scenario, which I didn't even think was on the radar, I mean, maybe if the institute closes down, I can no longer fund my students, I have to find another option.

STEPHANIE SY: And there's evidence that a brain drain may already be under way.

DANIELLA FODERA, Ph.D, Columbia University: So I have definitely kind of shifted my focus towards finding a research position abroad, particularly in Europe.

STEPHANIE SY: Daniella Fodera is a biomedical engineer who is set to complete her Ph.D.

from Columbia University this fall.

Back in March, the NIH grant that helped fund her research on uterine fibroids, which affect roughly 80 percent of women, was canceled.

DANIELLA FODERA: For a condition that affects so many women, the fact that we don't understand why it happens and how we can possibly treat it is a disservice.

STEPHANIE SY: Fodera's funding was later restored after Columbia agreed to pay more than $200 million to settle several investigations with the Trump administration.

Even so, she's now looking abroad and in the private sector for research opportunities.

DANIELLA FODERA: Definitely a path that I would never have envisioned, but, in this moment, it is making me consider other options.

ANNA DARLING, Ph.D, Ohio State University: I thought the only thing that could stop me from getting a Ph.D.

is for the world to end.

And the science world is kind of ending, the -- at least at the collegiate level.

STEPHANIE SY: Last month, Anna Darling started a Ph.D.

program in neuroscience at Ohio State University, where she's researching how early life stress and trauma can impact adolescent behaviors.

ANNA DARLING: I wanted to be a professor, just like my mom, who was a science teacher growing up.

I wanted to teach science.

STEPHANIE SY: But Darling says she recently found out that the funding for her Ph.D.

program is no longer guaranteed.

ANNA DARLING: My outlook on being a scientist in this country has definitely changed, because not only is the path a little bit more challenging, but also the freedom to do the research you want to do and to speak on the topics that you truly believe and hold value in is just not as free as it used to be.

STEPHEN JONES, Biochemist, Vilnius University: One of the things that's always made America great is our research excellence.

And that's something that takes a long time to build.

And when you lose that, it's really hard to regain it.

STEPHANIE SY: Biochemist Stephen Jones has already left the U.S.

for Lithuania.

In 2020, during the height of the pandemic, he says he began applying for jobs overseas after noticing a rise in anti-science sentiment.

STEPHEN JONES: I would really love to be in a place where the type of work that I'm doing is being valued.

And that's something that's, once I started interviewing outside of the U.S., I was seeing more of that, sort of this respect, not just by people within the scientific community, but people outside of the scientific community.

STEPHANIE SY: Today, Jones is running a research lab at a Lithuanian university.

And while many of his American colleagues initially questioned his move, he says some are now asking for advice on how to do the same.

STEPHEN JONES: You can tell that people's brains are sort of shifting now.

And it's not just like, oh, isn't that cute, to, what if I did that?

STEPHANIE SY: Meanwhile, other nations see an opening to bolster their own scientific ranks.

The European Union and France recently pledged a half-billion euros in grants to entice scientists to the continent's universities.

Since last year, the number of U.S.-based scientists seeking employment outside of the country has risen by 30 percent, with many applying to jobs in Canada, Europe, and China.

VIDYA SARAVANAPANDIAN, Postdoctoral Scholar, UCLA: I myself came here from India on an immigrant visa, an H-1B visa here, and I have been given so many amazing opportunities for, which I'm really grateful for.

STEPHANIE SY: Vidya Saravanapandian is a neuroscientist at UCLA who studies brain activity in children with developmental disorders.

VIDYA SARAVANAPANDIAN: We have 128 little electrodes here, and you can see them numbered.

STEPHANIE SY: She says the consequences of an exodus of research talent will be felt far beyond universities.

VIDYA SARAVANAPANDIAN: Shutting down labs will have huge consequences.

Your students will leave.

Ideas are lost.

Your experiments are ruined.

And this will have a huge impact on your economy.

All of this is making me really sad and scared for where this is going and what the future of science is for us as scientists, as well as for the younger generation.

STEPHANIE SY: Professor Tao has been critical of how the Trump administration has made funding cuts without minimizing harm to research and the people behind it.

TERENCE TAO: To be honest, the mind-set of the administration is rather alien to me.

I mean, like, it's -- whatever it is, it's not coming from the public interest being the primary objective.

For any complex problem, including how to develop a scientific ecosystem, you need a process where many, many voices can be heard, and one person who doesn't understand all the facilities can't just sort of come in and wreck everything.

STEPHANIE SY: How to protect America's scientific infrastructure is the latest problem Tao is trying to solve.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Stephanie Sy in Los Angeles.

GEOFF BENNETT: We're taking another look now at increasing electricity prices.

A few weeks ago, we examined the impact of artificial intelligence and the data centers needed to power it.

Now John Yang explores new findings that break down the issue and point to other factors behind the rising costs.

JOHN YANG: Geoff, the latest Consumer Price Index showed that the average electric bill went up a little more than 5 percent from September 2024 to September 2025.

That's more than the overall rate of inflation for the same period.

The conventional wisdom is that greater demand for power from the explosive growth of data centers is the reason.

But a new analysis by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the consulting group Brattle concludes that it's not that simple.

Ryan Hledik is a principal at Brattle.

He was a member of the research team.

Ryan, it's not only not that simple, but it's a little counterintuitive because you say the research suggests that greater demand for electricity can actually bring rates down.

How does that work?

RYAN HLEDIK, Principal, The Brattle Group: Yes, it can.

And I think the important thing to understand about the power sector is, a big portion of the cost that you're paying in your electricity bill is a fixed cost.

It's the poles and wires and power plants and substations that power companies have already gone out and invested in.

And they're recovering those costs from you based on how much you and your neighbors and other customers are consuming, how much electricity you're consuming.

And so if utilities can bring in a new large customer like a data center that's going to consume a lot of energy, if they can do that without needing to make big additional investments in infrastructure because they already have capacity on their system to accommodate that new customer, it actually can bring more energy into the system that you can spread those fixed costs out across, and that can actually have downward pressure on rates.

JOHN YANG: So is there any other way that data centers have an effect on electricity rates?

RYAN HLEDIK: There is.

What we're starting to see is that a lot of utilities that did have spare capacity are starting to run into capacity constraints because of all of this increase in demand for electricity.

And so when you run into that situation, then there is the potential that utilities are going to need to go out and make new investments to accommodate a new data center or another new large customer.

And those investments could increase costs and would have the potential to increase rates for other customers.

But even in that situation, it's not as simple as to say a new data center means rates are going up, because a lot of utilities around the country are starting to introduce new rate structures specifically for large customers like data centers that are intended to recover those incremental costs that are being introduced by the data centers from those customers and to avoid having those costs shifted to other customers.

JOHN YANG: So what are the forces or the effects that are pushing rates up?

RYAN HLEDIK: There are portions of the electricity distribution system that are 80 years old at this point.

And so we have really reached a point at a lot of locations, a lot of regions across the country where utilities are needing to go out and invest to simply replace aging transmission and distribution infrastructure.

And we're needing to do that at a time when the cost of that equipment has been increasing pretty rapidly pretty much ever since the pandemic.

JOHN YANG: Is the work on that infrastructure also being affected by severe weather, by hurricanes, storms and the like?

RYAN HLEDIK: Absolutely.

And there are really two effects to consider there.

One is what happens after a hurricane blows through or a winter storm happens and knocks out a significant portion of your power infrastructure.

There can be a pretty significant price tag associated with needing to go in and repair or replace those damaged portions of the grid.

The other piece of this is preparing to mitigate some of those risks.

And this is a big issue for the Western states right now, particularly California, where there are a lot of preparations that are being made to mitigate the risk of wildfires.

And so when we have looked at the rate changes in California recently, we have found that the single biggest driver of rate increases in California over the last five years has been risk mitigation as a result of wildfires.

JOHN YANG: What about -- there's some places that you have policies to encourage renewable energy.

Are they having an effect?

RYAN HLEDIK: They are.

And that effect - - we found that effect can go both ways.

In regions that have access to low-cost wind and solar, which are some of the cheapest sources of energy available, what we found is that in those regions we haven't seen a price increase associated with increased deployment of wind and solar resources.

And, if anything, there's a -- the relationship is that we have seen some prices decreasing as a result of increased market-based procurement of renewables.

When we see there being the potential for renewables to apply upward pressure on rates is when there's a policy in place called a renewable portfolio standard that would require utilities to go out and procure renewable energy above and beyond what the market would select on its own.

In that case, because you're essentially paying a premium for energy, there can be upward pressure on rates.

But that's not really a surprise because the policymakers that are in those states that are making the decision to introduce those policies are doing the math and saying, look, climate change itself can have a very significant cost to society.

And so we're willing to go out and spend a little more on energy to try and mitigate that risk and avoid that broader cost to society.

Ryan JOHN YANG: Ryan Hledik of the consulting group Brattle, thank you very much.

RYAN HLEDIK: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: As part of the latest cease-fire deal, Israel has released nearly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners and detainees and the bodies of nearly 200.

Many of the dead show what Palestinian officials and family members say are signs of torture and abuse.

Special correspondent Leila Molana-Allen and our "News Hour" teams in Gaza and the West Bank spoke with relatives of the deceased and of those still held.

And a warning: Viewers may find some of these images disturbing.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: The cruelest of reunions.

These families are searching for signs of their loved ones in the decaying remains returned to Gaza by Israel, desperate for news of family members they haven't heard from since they were detained during the war.

So many are missing that few even know how or why they disappeared.

They hope against hope that they won't find their answers here.

MARAM QUDEIH, Sister of Missing Person (through translator): I have been coming for four days since the first group of corpses arrived.

I came to look for my missing brother.

His wife was killed, as well as his four children.

His whole family has been wiped off the civil registry.

So I can't even ask them what clothes he was wearing to identify him.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Israel has now returned 195 bodies as part of the cease-fire deal.

They are so badly decomposed that just a quarter have been identified, a grisly and heart-rending job for the local forensics team.

With all Gaza's specialist labs destroyed by war, they must do the job by hand.

Doctors say many of the bodies bear signs of torture, abuse and execution.

This man died blindfolded, another with his hands bound behind his back.

DR.

AHMED DHAHIR, Palestinian Ministry of Health (through translator): There was decomposition in the bodies.

There were also gunshots on the chest and head, in addition to fractures in the skull and legs.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Nidaa has found her father's body.

She can't believe what she's seeing.

NIDAA MOHAMMED ZAGHRA, Daughter of Deceased Detainee (through translator): The bodies were mutilated and showed clear signs of torture, including my father, whose arms were amputated, with torture marks on his legs.

He was in terrible condition.

So I had to identify him from his clothes, his teeth and an old scar on his forehead.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: While Israel has long faced accusations of mistreatment inside its jails, recently released prisoners report an unprecedented surge in widespread abuse since October 7, including starvation, beatings, withholding of medical treatment and physical and psychological torture.

Human rights advocates say the attacks have been used as an opportunity to exert collective punishment against Palestinians, which is illegal under international law.

Jihad Al Roum was convicted of killing in Israeli during the Second Intifada in the early 2000s and sentenced to life plus 20 years.

As part of the cease-fire deal, he was released after 24 years in jail.

(CHEERING) LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: His family was ecstatic, but Jihad didn't get to go home.

Instead, he was exiled to Egypt without warning.

JIHAD AL ROUM, Released Prior Exiled to Egypt (through translator): Personally, I faced beating and abuse multiple times, including deprivation and having my hands and feet tied.

They'd leave me under the hot sun for hours and prevented me from going to the bathroom or being allowed hygiene essentials.

The food portions they provided were just enough to keep you alive.

Whenever we told them there was a sick prisoner who needed immediate medical care, they'd simply respond: "When he dies, let us know."

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Many released prisoners were too afraid to speak to us, fearing reprisals from Israeli authorities, even in exile.

JIHAD AL ROUM (through translator): They threatened us that, even if we can't arrest you there, we will assassinate you.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Jihad says even as they heard their release had been confirmed, they were led to an open yard, where they were severely beaten for hours before being loaded onto buses.

JIHAD AL ROUM (through translator): We got handcuffed and left on the ground for hours.

Then we were beaten cruelly as if this was the last time they could assault us.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: He told us that beating was so bad he couldn't sleep for the next two days.

Israel is still holding more than 9,000 Palestinian prisoners in prisons like the one behind me.

Over a third of them are held under a system called administrative detention, whereby Israel can detain Palestinians for a period of up to six months with neither charge nor trial.

But those orders can be renewed indefinitely under a secret file that neither the prisoner nor their lawyer is allowed to see.

That system is illegal under international law, and so is the detention of children, except under very strict parameters, which rights organizations say Israel is failing to meet.

Under Israeli law, an Israeli citizen becomes an adult at 18, but a Palestinian is deemed an adult at 16.

Even so, children as young as 12 are regularly detained, most often for throwing rocks or incendiary materials at Israeli tanks and soldiers.

Adel, whose name we have changed to protect his identity, is just 15.

He's been arrested three times since he was 13, and last year was shot in the legs by an Israeli soldier, needing multiple surgeries.

He says, after October 7, the child managers meant to monitor their treatment in jail were dismissed and new guards raided their cells nightly.

"ADEL," Released Child Prisoner (through translator): They took us out to the yard and went into the cells, where they took all our clothes and left nothing.

Later, they started invading the adult department, where they beat and tortured them.

One prisoner was sick, and the other prisoner started calling for a doctor to help him, but the guards came inside and started hitting him to wake him up.

Instead of getting a doctor, they beat him up.

He died.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Adel told us they were regularly starved in those months, but as soon as the release deal was confirmed, they were suddenly given plenty of food.

"ADEL" (through translator): They treated us well, so we would look healthier when we leave, and say the prison situation is good.

This only happens when there's a prisoner exchange, and once it's done, they return to their old bad behavior.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: I ask him why he's taking such a risk speaking to us.

"ADEL" (through translator): You lose your dignity inside.

I'm saying this today because the world should know the harsh conditions these prisoners are living in.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Israel's military press office said no bodies were tied prior to release in Gaza, but did not respond to specific allegations of signs of torture and execution on the returned bodies.

It accused news outlets covering these allegations of effectively supporting Hamas' false propaganda.

An Israeli government official did not respond to specific allegations on the treatment of detained Palestinians and minors, but told the "News Hour": "Individuals are held in detention based on security considerations only and in full compliance with the law."

In a village perched on a hilltop in the occupied West Bank, Zaher Ibrahim waits for news, for justice, for a child.

Zaher calls the cold and fearful night in February when Israeli forces stormed their home and attained his son for allegedly throwing rocks at Israeli military vehicles.

Mohammed was just 15.

ZAHER IBRAHIM, Father of Mohammed: They blindfold him.

They tied him up.

They tied him up.

And there was like 10 soldiers out here.

Then there was three big military army jeeps, and they took him, put him in the -- threw him in the back of the jeep.

And that's the last time we heard him or spoke to him.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Mohammed and his family are American from a small community in Florida, but they say their U.S.

passports, which once symbolized protection, have brought them little comfort.

ZAHER IBRAHIM: When you say American Palestinian, Palestinian American, it's not the same as Israeli, Israeli American.

And so even as a U.S.

citizen, I don't think they really care.

I think if it was an Israeli American, he wouldn't be there for one week.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: They haven't been allowed to see or speak to him since his arrest, in contravention of international guidelines on detained minors.

All they know is what the U.S.

Embassy tells them, and that isn't much.

ZAHER IBRAHIM: The U.S.

Embassy visited a Mohammed and they confirmed he had scabies all over his body and has weight loss.

He lost a good 30 to 40 percent of his body fat.

And he's not getting sunlight.

He's only getting -- they're only allowing him out 10 minutes a day.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: A State Department spokesperson told the "News Hour" it is providing consular assistance to Mohammed's family and that U.S.

Ambassador Mike Huckabee and embassy staff are deeply involved in working on this case.

Mohammed wasn't released in the cease-fire deal.

His family has no idea why.

Today, after nearly nine months in detention, Mohammed had a hearing at Ofer Prison.

His lawyer and the U.S.

Embassy representative attended, but failed to negotiate his release.

His father still wasn't allowed to see him in person.

ZAHER IBRAHIM: It's real tough on us, especially when we see these images of people coming out of jail.

They come out like skeletons, like bones.

You go to eat, then you think, what is he eating?

We're trying everything to help Mohammed out, but it's dead end everywhere we go.

LEILA MOLANA-ALLEN: Thousands more Palestinian families still wait helplessly for news, praying to see their detained loved ones again, but dreading the very worst.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Leila Molana-Allen in the occupied West Bank.

GEOFF BENNETT: In his new book, ABC News chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl offers a behind-the-scenes look at key moments at the White House and on the 2024 campaign trail that ended one party's hold on the White House and brought another back to power.

The book is "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America."

And Jon Karl joins us now.

It's great to have you here.

JONATHAN KARL, Author, "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America": Great.

Thank you for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: So you open this book by recounting a phone call with President Trump right after the election.

JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you say the president wanted to hear you acknowledge his election victory, and you compare this interaction to a scene from "Breaking Bad."

Tell us about that and what it suggested to you about how he was approaching the second term.

JONATHAN KARL: Look, this was such an incredible election, so many twists and turns.

And you know what it's like on election night.

You are up all night, and then you have to be on the morning shows of you're in television doing this.

So I had been up all night, and I just figured I would call Trump to congratulate him, which is strange, by the way.

Why would you call Trump?

I had been talking to him throughout the campaign, like every and -- some weeks, every couple of days.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you had known him for some 30-plus years.

JONATHAN KARL: And I have known him for a long time, and so I didn't think he was going to answer, by the way.

I mean, he's the president-elect now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Right.

JONATHAN KARL: But he answered, and I said: "President-Elect Trump, I'm just calling to say congratulations."

And he paused and he said: "On what?

On what, Jonathan?

You tell me.

Congratulations on what?"

And I said "on the greatest comeback victory in the history of American politics," which is what it was.

But it reminded me, in "Breaking Bad," the Walter white character played by Bryan Cranston, who is out there at one point with some other drug dealers he's clearly bested.

And he says: "Say my name.

Say my name."

Trump wanted to hear me say what had happened, wanted to hear me say, after all that I had written about him, to hear me say that he had won this great victory.

GEOFF BENNETT: Another revelation in this book, you cite Mike Pence's handwritten notes from the morning of January 6 documenting this call he had with President Trump, where Trump called him a wimp if he certified Biden's victory.

What new insights do those notes provide about the pressure Pence was under or the way that President Trump viewed that moment?

JONATHAN KARL: First of all, it's a fascinating historic document.

You think about all that we have studied on January 6, hours and hours of prime-time hearings, criminal investigations.

I wrote a book about January 6, other great journalism about January 6.

These notes had never been seen before.

Pence referred to them in his memoir, but even in -- Pence didn't reveal the actual content of these notes.

And he scribbles on his day timer.

So you get the sense that Pence -- it's 10:00 in the morning on January 6.

He's about to go up and preside.

Trump wants him to use that power that he has, which is really nothing, to overturn the presidential election.

He has refused up until now.

And the furiousness of his notes, he's trying to document that conversation for history.

There's one little piece on those notes that just blew me away when I finally got to see them, which is what looks like an emoji that he writes, he kind of scribbles of an angry face.

And it says -- it quotes Trump saying: "You listen to the wrong people."

And Pence's answer is: "I listen to my heart and my mind."

And he's clearly, like, anguished by it.

And is he angry?

Is it Trump's anger or is it his anger?

Unclear, but that's the document.

GEOFF BENNETT: There are people who will wonder, why hold a detail like that for this book?

If this exists, if that reporting exists, in the public interest, why not report it in real time?

JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

No, that's a great question.

And I get -- I hear this a lot.

Other reporters who write books hear this a lot, why are you saving stuff?

Isn't it your responsibility to get it out?

Well, here's the real -- the reality here, and I really hope people listen to this.

I break news in this book because I am writing a book.

It is a different kind of journalism.

I am burrowing far deeper than I would ever be able to do in daily reporting.

And I talk to people who wouldn't be willing to talk to me about a story that's going to air that night or the next morning and get in-depth stuff.

This took a lot of work to unearth.

I didn't sit on it to put it in a book.

I got it because I was in the process of writing a book.

GEOFF BENNETT: Another detail you got in your conversations was the sense that Kristi Noem, when she was nominated to serve as secretary of homeland security, that this was a personal favor that the president did to Corey Lewandowski.

This is despite concerns about her qualifications.

There were similar doubts raised about Sean Duffy, his lack of relevant experience, now transportation secretary.

What does that tell you about how power and loyalty and competence have been redefined in this second Trump term?

JONATHAN KARL: It really points to the contrast with the first, because Trump, in part, in his first term was looking for credentials.

He wanted to be affirmed.

So you have people like Four-Star General John Kelly as the secretary of homeland security, Four-Star General Mattis as the secretary of defense.

You had Senator Sessions as attorney general, later Bill Barr as attorney general.

These were people with long, distinguished careers.

But a lot of them in, Trump's mind, especially the people I just mentioned, Trump felt were not actually loyal to him.

So now it's not about what your credentials were.

It's about how deeply loyal you are to him.

And this is a Cabinet of people that have professed near-total loyalty, if not total loyalty to Donald Trump.

GEOFF BENNETT: He's surrounded by loyalists, as you say.

I think another hallmark of the second Trump term is the degree to which institutions have folded to him.

JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: So when the present these days sort of muses aloud and wonders aloud about running for another term, a third term... JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: Although most recently he said that it's pretty clear he's not allowed to do it.

But the idea has been implanted.

JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: Do you think he's serious?

JONATHAN KARL: I don't think he is serious.

I will say that first.

I think he's doing it to troll people and to make people freak out about it.

But I think that idea is gaining some traction and it needs to be watched, because I'm not so sure that Trump is ready to hand over the baton.

He may understand that the 22nd Amendment would make it impossible to run again.

But if he can be convinced that he's the only one and he's got to stay, I don't know.

But I will tell you this.

In my reporting more recently, Trump has told people privately, people close to him, when the cameras aren't on and when he's not on social media, that he does not intend to stay for another term.

That could change.

So stay tuned.

But that's what he's saying now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Retribution, how far do you think this will go, given that it has really been operationalized in recent months?

JONATHAN KARL: Yes.

I don't -- I honestly don't know.

He seems like almost everything that he is doing now is either punishing the people that he feels betrayed him or went after him, rewarding friends, and also kind of like a legacy pitch, whether it's building the big ballroom.

He's very serious about wanting the Nobel Peace Prize.

These are different than the first term.

He is thinking about lasting changes to this country.

And he's dead serious about getting back at his enemies.

GEOFF BENNETT: The book is "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America."

Jon Karl, always good to speak with you.

JONATHAN KARL: Yes, thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," thanks for spending part of your evening with us.