> > This week on the Wheelhouse > > Media manipulation using AI to sell a story and distort politics.

♪ > > for > > Connecticut Public.

Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.

The show that connects politics.

The people we got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

The shooting of Renee good by a federal immigration agent.

The U.S.

capture of Venezuela's former President Nicolas Maduro, a war in the air and on the Internet between the U.S.

and Iran this hour, we're taking a look at how artificial intelligence is influencing the news and media.

We'll also ice pull on politics and asked is AI imposing a new barrier on media literacy.

Willis Appleman associate professor in the William White School of Journalism and Mass Communications at Kansas University.

Dr Appleman.

Thank you so much for being here.

> > Thank you so much for having me.

> > So happy to have you on here as well as Renee Hobbs, the founder of the media Education Lab, a professor of communication at the Herrington School of Communication and Media at the University of Island.

Good Morning, Doctor.

Hot.

So glad to have you aboard Listen, I'm going to ask you a question.

Also want to tell folks to give us a call.

8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, this morning.

88 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7.

If they'd like to join in on the conversation.

Let's see spent the last decade or so research interests in news media.

Recently you focus on how consumers feel about AI being used in journalism based on your understanding, how was a I actually being used versus maybe how consumers might.

I think it's being used.

> > That's a great question.

Yes, and I think that's that's a big part of the of the conversation, which I'm very glad that you brought this up because part of what's going on is that because it is such a new tool for journalists and for everybody that there's a disconnect between that.

What journalists are using that will for and what people think.

The reason that will force of.

> > There's just a lot of a lot of confusion about about the role of or at the role of AI in.

My in my study is what I found is that journalists are often using AI for.

> > maybe > > like transcribing interviews, for example, or analyzing large data sets.

But there's a concern from from readers that and listeners that what's going on is completely fabricated stories which of course, is sometimes happening.

But that disconnect between kind of what professional journalists are are doing, what readers think they might be doing what some not professional journalists or joy or people who are also sharing content online are using technology for being different than maybe what professional journalists are using AI for self.

> > Yes, we all love data journalism.

There's that aggregating and this aggregation of large data sets as we know that AI can help with that.

As you mentioned, some folks are using things like otter to transcribe a long interviews and things of that nature.

There's also the other side where some news organizations, as I understand it, are starting to have.

I take the first pass at writing stories which is a big no-no in our industry or at least would be a Connecticut Public and there's also, I guess, proliferating a of media that journalist may cover if they don't know whether or not it's not true.

So I guess that's the part of the AI either way.

Do you think news outlets are sort of being transparent about their use of AI?

> > I think that they're trying to be.

And I think part of where we are right now with the media landscape is figuring out what that transparency looks like.

So I've done some studies where we have Penn Dot experimental social science studies looking at, you know, if you show somebody a news article and you tell them it was written by AI versus you tell them it wasn't.

How they perceive the content and part of what we're finding in those kind of studies is that we don't have great language for describing.

For being transparent about AI.

So, for example, when we say AI, you know, was a assistant, was being used as a tool here.

That sounds transparent from the perspective of the journalist and a journalism professor.

But it's not super clear what people think that means.

I think that the fields we don't quite have the language for even if we want to be really transparent about what we're using AI for, we just haven't quite figured out.

I think how how to do that or what to see.

Sayah about what we're doing in a way that readers will be able to to understand the listeners will be able to understand.

That's not militias.

That just because everything is new.

So somebody saying that they're using AI for this particular and I for this particular process, people just don't necessarily know what that means because it's because it's new, right?

So I think working toward being transparent about AI uses is really important where I think we should be going.

But I think we're still in in that development sort of area.

We are.

It's not super clear what kind of language and what kind of information would be helpful.

And also maybe what's to treat like what information is too much information.

ultimately that we do work in the industry of communication.

And when we're talking so much about AI.

There's there's that call for transparency.

But then, of course, > > you have something you don't want to do, which is confuse people when you are trying to give them the news because they have to understand whats happening to be informed and because we're talking today about how media is consumed by the masses.

I thought we'd get out there and gather some tape of actual people talking about their news consumption.

Renee, here's with somebody on her way into a marshals for Alyssa is out there in Kansas.

I don't think you have the marshals out there.

There's a bells out what those kind of stories out there in the in the ether.

But in Connecticut, sort of our place that gets us some of the wholesale kind of clothing is marshals and she was met by my booming voice, asking her for an interview.

Meghan Rodriguez, Hawkins and Divina Corderro were there with me producing this segment.

Here's Renee Harris now.

> > There are certain new sites.

Every don't have much faith in.

I hate to mention any names I'm what you call a a liberal.

So I kind of gravitate to was that type of media.

either online, the newspaper > > Renee Hobbs, doctor Hobbs are so many different ways in which someone can receive information to the extent that it can become overwhelming.

How can someone cut through the noise to find sources that are reliable and credible?

I guess how does that sound like Renee Harris is doing in her sort of critique of news media.

> > Well, Renee Harris has a couple of things, right?

She recognizes that journalism standards like verification and accountability.

And that there's other stuff that really looks like news but may have a partisan bent.

So recognizing the rights of partisanship and partisan journalism in American society.

At one big step that Renee is taken as a news consumer.

> > According to a survey published in November by the News Literacy Project, 50% of teens.

believe that journalists makeup information and 60% believe that they take videos and photos out of context.

Where do you believe, Alyssa, that this distrust comes from?

> > Yeah.

So.

I think I I think from a few different places.

I think has as we were just discussing his the kind of proliferation of content where some of it is.

> > Verify, trustworthy.

Following fall journalistic legal ethical principles, professional content and then also other content that all these kind of shared on the same platforms and in the city medium.

So I think some of the distrust is coming from just that.

That information overload.

But also that kind of proliferation of of content and I think also that where we're expecting a lot of readers.

And listeners right now and Wieters A-listers are all very smart people.

But there there's just a lot of kind of media literacy.

Training in AI literacy training that we're sort of taking for granted are assuming that people have have the information to kind of sus out all of this themselves and set be able to distinguish between the different type of content.

So I think that's where some of the district asked as coming from.

> > Yeah, that's that.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Doctor Oz.

> > I was going to say that's a really good point, Alyssa, because I think it's important for news consumers to recognize the 3 kinds of things happening.

There's there's journalism as we understand it.

There's news adjacent content I like to use for what you're talking about.

It looks and feels like information.

But it's optimized.

To did you pull your attention and it's customized to link to your identity and to your interests and also it's it's click bait.

It's a you know, it's there's some profit motive there.

And then there's yet another kind of content that people are dealing, which which is propaganda and disinformation.

That takes it one step further.

Those are intentionally designed to persuade or manipulate you.

So sorting out those buckets.

Like you said, Frankie takes a lot > > To to sort out that bucket of work.

in at least try to include.

That is great point.

I'd like to I'm thinking about it as journalism.

Then tabloid and then sort of the propaganda so where I fit into all of that with?

Because we've always had propaganda.

Of course, we've had it.

all the way back in time.

But how is that at least in this modern age, how AI sort impacting the conversation?

> > I was having a huge impact on that middle category news adjacent content really is exploded in quantity because of AI because that's a clipped podcast Get stitched TikTok.

It's a partisan explainer.

me and Macau.

It's a I narrated.

> > You too short.

Those things are everywhere.

A chatbot summary.

All of those new genres or forms of news adjacent content.

They're ubiquitous.

So is that something that's sure to them?

So is that something different the from from the past?

I think I just want to kind of close the loop on this conversation.

> > So we talked about those 3 categories.

Is it now that in 2026?

category 3 propaganda and disinformation, maybe with AI being a tool.

It's sort of bleeding into that news adjacent content.

> > Yeah.

And and the second category news adjacent content is more and more created with the > > help of the AI tools > > so it's faster and quicker to produce those things that ever before.

Back in the old days, if you wanted to do.

> > I let you called tabloid > > A human had to create it.

content.

Yeah, not > > I completely agree with Dr Haass.

I think the examples after have that you are giving about the video with a TikTok in the audio.

I think that's a big part of it, too.

Is that I can help replicate that.

Can fabricate hate those.

The audio and video clips which is different than kind of in a previous era where yes, you couldn't write text, but somebody could still kind of go out into the world and verify.

Is there a video of that politicians saying that they rightly can we find audio from that event that I didn't go to you once you can fabricate the audio and the video that makes it a lot more difficult to do that.

That verification.

> > Renee work.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

> > I was just going to say that.

That's such a good point because I think these these new forms of news adjacent content when they're created by AI, they give people the good news consumers, the feeling it informed.

But there is no discipline, a verification behind that.

And so that is a dangerous place.

> > Destiney Brown was another person that agreed to talk to us when we asked people at this Enfield Connecticut shopping mall for comment on media consumption.

Here's how Brown says she interfaces with artificial intelligence.

> > I think it's like depending on your universe and industry or an ounce is necessarily bad.

Allen says Ashley, Good.

I'm just a regular person side.

Just use it for my G mail.

> > That's one person's view of AI Alyssa and how it can be used based on how much uncertainty there is.

The on AI how can how it can and should be used.

You feel that there should be a set of standards for how it can be employed.

What might those standards look like?

I'm sure lawmakers are having this conversation as we speak.

We know they are in Connecticut.

> > That's a great question.

I personally think that.

Legal and ethical standards are going to be any needed to be created in order to figure out where where this fits from an education standpoint, we're certainly talking about this in university settings about what sort of, you know, schoolwork were encouraging students to use AI for versus encouraging them not to use AI Ford where that fits.

And so yes, I will say I don't know exactly what those standards should and shouldn't be.

But I I think transparency is going to be one of > > you and everyone else.

and I've we've had these conversations, a lot of the local level here and there we've been talking about this legislation for some time now.

But a little different in Connecticut with how our government operates.

We called the land of steady habits here in Connecticut has run a Hobbs may be aware of, but there's a lot of talk around news media literacy.

So what actually is this and how is it evolving with AI?

> > Thank you.

I want to make a point.

I'm gonna I'm gonna answer that question.

But I want to comment on the really nice sound bite that use from that.

That person at the at the mall.

She said something that we haven't yet talked about that I think has to be understood as part of I literacy and media literacy.

She said, well, the stuff that I get great.

So she has some understanding more or less that AI is being used to personalize content.

So when people think AI, they think like what like they think fabricated to animated cats are, you know, stuff that the politicians are putting out now about the war, right?

Where AI is created the content.

But AI is also part of the process of personalizing content and controlling your feed and people may or may not know why they're seeing certain stories.

Why one source is elevated over another or how their own behavior is shaping their actions.

So I heard that a news consumer talk a little bit about how she's kind of curated her feed.

She's fine with it.

Like depending on what industry, depending what your interests are.

And I feel like we all need to be more Medicaid native about how AI personalization is shaping our understanding of the world by the algorithmically presented choices that are made and that is a part of the media and AI literacy.

> > Met a causative.

That's the next bin name.

I'm adding into ether.

There's a lot of talk around media literacy.

So I asked you this question, but let's get into this a little further what actually is it and how does it evolve with AI?

And we talked about Medicaid mission there.

But just help us understand more from what people can do to actually sort of.

Understand what they're taking in.

> > it media literacy is the and expanded way of thinking about literacy reading, writing, speaking, listening and now it means being able to understand any.

What's happening in messages that are coming across being able to reflect on their impact on individuals and society and to be able to create media and participate in democracy through the strategic communication.

So expanding literacy to include critical thinking reflection on media's impact and its role in our identity is creators as collaborators and this civic civic action, civic actors in a democracy.

Alissa.

We talk a little bit about a set of standards that could be employed earlier.

> > Just want to finish up the segment by asking you this.

What do you feel can be done?

I know we're talking about standards, but is there anything else that could sort of be done to to allow people to gain more trust in in news outlets at this time.

> > I think the media literacy, especially we're just having is a big part of that.

I think once people which a lot of people are right, including your arms, your listeners.

But once were.

Having people pay more attention to where their information came from when that information was published, who's being cited in that article, he's being interviewed in that segment.

Like once people are really able to identify those different elements that make media media content credible.

I think that that helps with this larger this larger discussion about finding the kinds of content that they are able to trust.

> > Maybe people being more deliberate about their process as we're seeing now at listen to New York Times and NPR every morning in pretty much you're hearing more process based promotion and things like that.

All right, from Connecticut Public Radio, want to say that this is the Wheelhouse.

I'm Frankie Graziano, folks.

Give us a call.

8, 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, If they want to participate.

It also hit us up on our YouTube stream, Alyssa appleman professor Kansas University and Renee Hobbs professor Hugh R I they're going to stay with us for the next segment after the break.

We're going hear from experts.

Like these guys.

Obviously, these are the experts AI is having on politics, including what many are saying is the first-ever AI fueled war in Iran.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

Earlier we talked about the increasing presence of AI from social media feeds too newsrooms as doubt rises on the trustworthiness of news and even.

Information itself.

We'll look at how users and journalists can combat this back with us is Alyssa Apple Men, an associate professor in the William White School of Journalism and Mass communications at Kansas University and then Renee Hobbs, a professor of communication at the Heritage School of Communication and Media at the University of Rhode Island.

Folks, you can give us a call.

Join the conversation.

Do you believe AI is a good or bad thing in 2 days, information economy, give us a call.

It's 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 7 to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, Renee is practically.

Everyone is now able to create and engage with information through social media.

What type of content are we seeing?

Do?

> > Did and and do.

> > The meme sort of up plan to this distortion of information, too.

Shouldn't exist.

> > Well, you know, it's interesting.

I would say there are 2 forms of expression and communication that are now on the rise because of AI and both of them.

Have a powerful impact on especially on young people.

Today.

The first one I would say is social influencers, everyone, every every child in America wants to be a YouTuber when they grow up, right?

it's and and you know, there's a real good reason for that, right?

Which is they are perceived very trustworthy.

Unbelievable.

They're authority doesn't come from their expertise like how much they know or what degrees they have their their their authority comes from their charisma, other related ability, right?

They're just like us.

And I make it easier for those people to pump out the volume of content that's going on and then there's means and memes are really kind of old-school actually, you know, they're in the old school by Internet years.

They've been around, you know, since the beginning, right?

And now the teams are powerful because you really are just re mixing, right?

You're re mixing and putting together a message.

Almost always through just combination of emotionally compelling images and basically people are conversing in means the sun, the way that people are conversing in emojis right?

People are conversing in means.

Alyssa, what did you think about that?

> > I have not heard comparison between means that the motive, but I think that's a very interesting.

I agree.

I think that's what's going on > > yeah, I it's an interesting conversation because it 10, 15 years ago we were talking about how younger people are not.

But we're not engaged in like current events.

And I don't think that's the case anymore.

So I do think that there's a lot of > > engagement.

And I think that we should be excited that there's so many people right who are interested in what's going on in the world.

I think it's figuring out how to kind of harness that energy and make sure that the kind of information that there, but they're getting is accurate and verified and, you know, corrected if it's wrong and things like that.

But I do think that there is an element of, I guess my my optimistic side.

So there is something really positive that there's so many people and younger people who are really interested in current What's going on in the world.

> > I want you Yeah.

Goahead > > Thank influencers can help yet.

be like an on ramp to caring about news and current events.

> > Yeah, there's 2 stories sides of that coin.

They can.

They can also influence you to buy products and things like that.

There's the fun side of it where the where the kids are saying, hey, we're gonna make of the YouTube video.

Dad, Charlie, a nanny and then I walk near the shot.

They go on just our dad, by the way.

Anyway, guys, that's cute.

When they do that, there's also experience is that we found to be negative.

But I guess that's where it becomes incumbent on the adults right to actually teach children and maybe help with some of that media alert.

Literacy.

> > Yeah.

One of the things we like to ask teachers to do is ask students to identify their favorite influencers and now we have a conversation about why do you like them?

What makes them compelling?

What makes them trustworthy?

And that creates a very lively discussion that invites us to think about.

How do we decide who and what to trust and that's a really powerful discussion to be having today.

> > I appreciate that.

Also take that into my bank of idea so that I could you apply that in my personal life.

I want you to take those 2 things where we talk about social influencers.

We talk about memes and apply them.

This is the ultimate work that you are about to do and apply them to the war in Iran.

What are you seeing that might be something that you're storing in the back of your head as you go or taking notes on that sort of involves this new age media and apply it to what's happening with this very a classic sort of conflict that we're having with the United States and Iran.

> > Memes may be that we're seeing or something like that or where we were calling it.

The AI fueled war or is there anything either of you are seeing in that regard?

> > Well, you know, the old saying right?

That truth is the first casualty and in war time.

And so memes are one way shaping people's perceptions of reality.

Is Iran completely demolished and unable to fight back?

> > do they still have the > > Or capacity to fight back?

Will right now the White House and the Iranian government are in on me more about that trying to control our perceptions of reality about whether Iran's capacity for war is is how how, how significant it is and that ability for wartime propaganda to control people's understanding of reality.

It's something everybody needs to be really aware of right now.

And that's why it's really challenging for us to distinguish between information news, Jason content and propaganda because it's all really blurry, right?

All 3 of those forms are part participate, participating in the shaping of reality.

> > And then as we're talking about all did you want to respond?

I'm sorry.

> > That supply.

I agree.

I think the blurring of these categories is a big part of that.

The problem and something that Dr Hassan said earlier I think is really relevant here to about that kind of personalization and customization element of AI algorithms.

part of what we we haven't really discussed in this conversation is the fact that sir, people are getting information based on other information.

They've they've liked before.

Right?

So your your feeds are curated base and the other types of content that you are that you're consuming which means that different people are getting different information, right?

Which is part of what what what leads to kind of lack of ability to communicate in some of this like instability is that people are it's sort of in there with all of the filter bubble, right?

Like people are have that selective exposure where they're only seeing content.

that relates to other content that they've that they've seen before.

So that was just the point.

I was going to add > > I getting increasingly harder to spot following the U.S.

seizure of former Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro in I videos and images began circulating online.

One of the videos was re posted by Elon Musk to his ex account, which has about 238 million followers when something like this happens.

What does this mean?

Dr Hops for the future of media literacy?

> > It took it.

Turns out that it's it's just like the fake news crisis of 2016 was really good for media literacy, education, right, and really helped get it on the radar screen that everybody now understands how important it is, the that the kind of dis-information that we're seeing.

In the war time is absolutely creating a lot of momentum for media literacy.

I'm really excited about test of media literacy, competencies.

That's going to be rolling out in 2029, Connecticut and PR viewers should know that the OECD, which is European think tank that has a big influence on education policy.

They've made a commitment to create a one-hour online assessment called Media and AI literacy.

It's like like a game.

It's a it's a test that puts you in a situation of being a scenario like, let's say you're an intern at a journalism organization or let's say you are helping with a social media strategy and it invites kids to demonstrate their ability.

2 engage in verification lateral reading in comparing and contrasting the quality of information in recognizing when emotions are used to push people's buttons and so all of those competencies are going to increasingly more like something.

We expect that high school students and all adults should be able to do should be able to do something that's gonna be widely available for organizations maybe to use > > in training or he's gonna and go to schools.

Going to be a website like how can people consume it?

> > Will it first?

It will be it will it'll be a research test of 800,015 year-olds in 100 countries.

That's the that's the mechanism by which the tests.

> > reporting this the best education system.

Finland next up, Singapore, you know, further down the United States.

What that will do is create the momentum for what you're pointing out.

Frankie, the need for curriculum resources and teacher training and in consultation.

So that's coming down the pike.

And if you think about it and he's pretty new.

So we're all still trying to figure out what do students need to know about it?

From my point of view when it comes to the war.

The war madness that we're in right now.

I'm thinking about the power of emotional the way that, you know, were influenced by not just are not just facts, but also by feelings.

And journalists have often really privileged facts over feelings.

But the rise of social media, influencers and memes is helping us understand that people.

Decide what reality is based on facts and feelings.

> > Sounds like what you're digging into is an anthropology I think that's the way you say it conversation.

I think our producer Megan Rodriguez Hawkins would really appreciate that kind of a conversation when we're out and field getting sounded advance of the show.

We met Garth Mickelson, Garth says he used to admire user-generated art on the Web, but he's grown weary of it.

> > When Ai art first came out, you could tell because it was like a little wonky details.

There was like a lot in any accuracy is, but now it's gotten so good that you really have to know a subject when you're looking at I picture or video.

> > To know that you're being spoofed and that's really what a lot of these are.

It's not like I'm presenting you this video and this is an artist's conception, re creation of something that happened know they're presenting is that as this is actual reality?

> > Considering what we just heard from Garth and he's standing out there against a post just to give people a place at the shopping mall.

He's right outside of a Barnes and Noble in Enfield, Connecticut.

What's the best course of action, folks for people who do not have the time to discern fact from fiction and aren't necessarily going to be looking for that courtesy caption that says artist rendering or conception or something like that.

> > I think and that is talking about are very spot.

We it to information like that information, literacy, undergraduate class at the University of Kansas.

And one of the things we used to look at with some of these videos and talking as a group about what are the tells that this might be an AI video and that conversation has changed over the years because those videos have got more more elaborate > > I think.

I think some of the media literacy techniques that were mentioned, some of the lateral reading, which is what we talk about of, like, let's find the same information somewhere else and see if we can verify that information.

If I go to with different.

> > New source and the source that I trust our couple of other news sources.

But I trust it doesn't have to take a super long time.

That even just a little bit of a search on a couple other sites.

Our other people reporting this to have other people.

You know, seeing the same video and if nobody else is running mess, if this is the only place where this information is, I would be more skeptical of the information.

> > Yeah, yeah.

I agree with that.

We would say that you are asking not just is this true or is this ai-generated but who made it?

What's their purpose?

What do they > > why why?

Why do they why are they sharing it you know, from from from my point of view, this question about, you know, Ai art and authenticity, its creativity or its originality reminds me of a I'm not so worried about it.

I guess pretty key and that's partly because I'm so old.

I'm old enough to remember when Photoshop was a new thing.

> > Do you remember that you are a baby meant you weren't even born yet.

And I use We also want to bring back to our conversation at the marshals in Enfield.

I want you guys to hear this clip.

> > With Renee Harris, the news consumer who calls herself a liberal and her thoughts on artificial intelligence.

Let's roll that clip.

> > I'm terrified.

I because I'm afraid that so many of the next generation.

They're not going to have jobs after the AI is going to just take over the world.

> > You don't know where this tooth will not.

So that's what my big concern is, especially when you see AI that can person 8 human beings.

That's very concerning for me.

> > Doctor Appleman.

You had a tip there earlier, but how can journalists mitigate this fear that Renee Harris has?

> > I think it's a very legitimate fear.

It's something that we certainly talk about it educational settings as well as preparing students for this new world that we're not sure exactly what it's going to look like.

We've been talking about the phrase we keep using as a as a tool.

I as a tool for for journalists to use in their work for professionals, use another work not as a replacement for for human labor but I but I agree we're not sure exactly what that what that looks like.

And it's evolved.

And we're all trying to figure that out that together.

> > Yeah, I think what I think what we're we have appreciate is that it will widen the gap because humans plus AI is gonna is gonna make productivity just?

On steroids.

And so the gap between what you can do with AI and what you can do without it is going to widen that gap.

And that means there are going to be people who who are able to use AI skillfully.

One of the things I like to do with my students is demonstrate to them how they can use a super proud that that's a special set of instructions that you give a I that structures.

The result to receive and they have this > > Where they go, oh, I was high.

just taking my question and and getting b******* back.

But when I use a super prompt and when I structure results in a way that really accelerate my thinking, I I I really increased my productivity.

So I feel like that.

It's a big crisis coming.

But there always will be the need for people who can.

> > Use AI in a productive way and then meant and then not that that will protect them, protect them from any job.

A changed dynamic happening in the world.

What about their worldviews?

So there's there's there's employment and things like that.

But then I guess there's the political end of the spectrum.

> > Well, of course, that thing I worry about most, of course, is, you I didn't create the problem of partisan news.

Did it?

is was a phenomenon going back to?

Well, depending on how you if you're a historian, you could say to the founding of this country when we wrote the First Amendment to protect partisan news.

> > So partisan news has long been a phenomenon that has increasingly had impact on our a democracy and our understanding of the world.

And I feel like and he's just like up to the game.

But we wouldn't want to blame a I. For the problem of partisan news and the way in which it's it divided our country in 2 people with very different understandings of what reality is.

And of course, there are a lot of ways to fix that.

Frankie > > and they all take what I > > but call intellectual humility.

> > Intellect and humility.

Some other thing you've talked about is > > in your book, mind over media propaganda, education for a digital age.

I want to get that right.

Mind over media propaganda, education for a digital age.

Talk about AI is almost the perfect tool for propaganda.

Sounds sinister.

Can you briefly discuss how AI functions within contemporary propaganda and why say it that way?

Perfect tool.

> > It's a perfect tool right?

Because I in a in the in the crowd in it propaganda and AI is tapping into the facts that trust in journalism is eroded and it allows anyone.

It's a it's like a force multiplier right?

It speeds up content production.

So it lets a propagandist be first and fast.

And we know, you know, we humans we have this kind of bias.

> > Which is the first thing we hear.

Could this tax and once you hear it, you can't on the hear it.

It's why a fact checking as always only been like.

> > Marginally effective.

> > When it comes to news because whatever you heard first is going to shape your reality.

And so propaganda is the perfect tool because of the way it allows people to speedily frame events in ways that benefit the propagandist.

> > From Connecticut Public Radio, this is the Wheelhouse.

I'm Frankie Grass.

And you've been listening to Alyssa Appleman associate professor in the William White School of Journalism.

A Kansas University.

So thankful that you came on the show today was really Nice.

Beach, Dr.

Appleman.

> > Thank you so much for having me.

It was nice to meet him and Renee Hobbs, a professor of communication at the Heritage School of Communication and Media at the University of Rhode Island.

Thank you so much for joining us.

> > I really enjoyed it.

Thank you.

Thanks.

After the break, we're talk about how Connecticut lawmakers are responding to concerns about online safety, mostly at the national level off of some of the local level a little bit.

What's this mean for our kids?

Hit us up.

> > 8, 8, 7, to 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano, spent the show talking about.

Distrust of news outlets in Ai-generated content.

We'll talk about how federal lawmakers are joining into the conversation.

Now.

They're talking about protecting kids on line and who knows?

Maybe we'll talk one more time.

the Graziano Hagan, Federal budget Resolution Invitational one more time as we have my good friend joining us from Capitol Hill right now, Lisa Hagen, federal policy reporter for Connecticut Public and the Connecticut Mirror.

Thank you so much for being here.

Lisa.

> > Thanks for having me as always.

Thank you.

Federal lawmakers.

> > They always have a lot of business to attend to so much so that it seems like sometimes they're putting off this conversation.

How are they acting in regards to artificial intelligence?

Are they embracing its capabilities or they more worried about that other part of the conversation, which is ai-generated images from bad actors.

> > I think they're trying to strike a balance and I think it's again, it's this kind of tug of war between federal side and states because, you know, you're seeing a lot of action happening stateside typically, you know, states know best what they should do for their people and Congress, frankly, takes a long time to implement.

New measures, especially around newer things I and so obviously we've seen the the liberation of AI.

It's gotten really popular in the last few years and it's becoming part of daily life as you guys spoke about previous segments and so, you know, now we're seeing the Trump administration kind of wading into this a bit more at the federal level and he's trying to set the tone of the top.

And so it's finding ways of I and a lot of ways and also implementing some protections.

But I think it kind of emanates from fact they, you know, federal government is fearful that Steve's could stymie innovation based on different patchwork of laws are doing.

Obviously the state is going to side.

What what they suspect is all going to different things.

And so there's that fear the federal level, at least from the executive branch and they want people to be able to gain skills on AI because again, it's just become such a. are one part of our daily life.

But you are also seeing federal lawmakers looking for ways to regulate and they've been they've been trying to do so for the past couple of years.

But I think again, by President Trump setting the tone the top and trying to find a national framework and national law that really change some things and really change how federal lawmakers try to do regulate or expand > > And looking at how the a I. federal government looks at what's happening at the state level.

You had Senate Democrat here in Connecticut at the local state government level.

Bob Duffy wrote a letter to Congress asking them not to strip the states of their ability to hold social media companies accountable for their addictive products.

> > Kind of goes into that same bucket which people might be thinking, hey, you I could come from an actor.

It could be from a user generating image.

But at the same time, we're always talking about online safety.

And then we're talking about Facebook and we're talking about the other media companies.

Why does that always happen?

Is it is it that we always think it's the responsibility of the media companies to sort of gate keep what comes in and what comes out.

And then I guess he in that regard, is it now or is there still that effort to to sort of keep these media companies hold their feet to the fire to to have them do it.

> > Yeah, I think we're kind of seeing that play out on us federal level.

I mean, we've seen.

Congress a lot of the time the senator from Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal trying to hold a lot of these media companies, me CEOs accountable.

They come before Congress a few times.

Now trying to especially when it comes to safety of children and minors on social media.

So that's, you know, not just on AI, but obviously a I is a huge part of social media and just all of our Internet experiences.

And so you're seeing the Congress and I think try to really ramp up pressure on media companies to take accountability for this to protect to protect minors online.

And you know, the I know Metta in terms of Stace book an Instagram, they've done their own kind of sad protections for minors.

They've done Tina Cows and another ways of trying to regulate minors experiences online.

But you know, Congress would like codified into federal law.

But but again, you're going to see this kind of push and pull, I think, play out over the next few months of what role does the federal government why all this and again from I think a Trump administration perspectives not signing.

Ai innovation and having the U.S., you know, maybe it this way in the competition.

And you had said Blumenthal earlier, I think it was him and Marsha Blackburn, actually the > > Republican from Tennessee co-sponsor legislation a few years back.

All the kids Online Safety Act.

Colloquially known as COSA as we often use acronyms here at the federal and local government levels is that things still around is still kicking around.

Is that any chance of passage, any of these years?

I guess.

> > It's still it's still kicking I've been covering it the last couple session that I and covering Connecticut from DC.

> > I you know, there's it is the one issue in Congress.

One rare issue, right?

Like there is consensus around wanting to do something to protect children, teens and > > anyone kind of under 18 online like that is the you know there.

There is consensus on that.

It's just from inland.

How how does Congress get there?

And so cod coast, kids online safety Act on the Senate side and gotten through last session.

Overwhelming bipartisan support and the House is kind of doing its own version of that.

And so they've kind of taken components of COSA and candidates and into other big digital safety kind of legislation for kids.

And so.

Again, there's cause because kind of fight play out between the Senate and the House.

But, you know, just what to do with COSA.

I know for Sunderland all he thinks that the house is doing is water down version.

But there are still real concerns whether it be on First Amendment rights with Kids Online Safety Act that could, you know, make it difficult to to get it across the finish line again.

> > Often times police said and I on the show will try to illustrate why it's hard for lawmakers to do certain things because they're up against a certain calendar and then, of course, there always campaigning because it particularly in the House have to run every 2 years for office and then, of course, there's what we see now with another continuing resolution to fund the government until September for most of the governor, governor government.

But last question for you, Lisa, you've got about a minute to have to do this for us.

Help us understand what's going on now with this partial government shutdown involving the Department of Homeland Security, which includes places like excuse me, agencies like TSA, the people that are helping us get in and out of airports.

> > And just a quick going get back to those.

I mean, this is why it's so difficult for Congress to be able to tackle issues like, oh, say, can you they're they're just they're having to do.

Other really times says that things like funding the federal government.

And so we're kind of in the shutdown position yet again, 3rd time in probably about 6 months, only one agency this time for DHS.

But we're basically sitting in shutdown limbo at this point because Congress is out for the next 2 weeks because of 2 holidays.

And so they left town with the Senate passing.

legislation the House passes the legislation and no one resolving it.

So I think over the next 2 weeks we're going to be waiting and seeing what happens with DHS and it seems like at least as of right now, TSA agents for getting paid just quickly.

There was that that a partial funding resolution that came down from the president.

> > It was an executive action to and provide So Congress.

Again, he's just left everyone kind of in limbo about funding DHS.

> > Lisa Hagen, federal policy reporter for Connecticut Public and the Connecticut Mirror.

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Thanks, Frankie.

So great to have you on today.

Show is produced by Megan Rodriguez.

Hawkins and tally Ricketson.

Thank you so much for doing the show.

Thank you so much to Divina Corderro as well for getting some of this tape with us and it by Patrick Scale doing raise it is our technical producer.

Thank you so much to test terrible Megan Fitzgerald and the rest of our team, Megan Boone.

Download the We'll ask any time on your favorite podcast app.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is the wheels.